yet another Pitt getting blamed!

[scottyc510]

This is from the Joplin Globe


http://www.joplinglobe.com/story.php?story_id=223159&c=87
is the link to the story, and the online comments about it.










2-year-old attacked by pit bull

Family lost home, dog in mobile-home fire

Nammi Bhagvandoss
Globe Staff Writer
1/26/06
Print this story

KANSAS, Okla. - A 2-year-old girl who went near a chained pit bull terrier was attacked Tuesday afternoon, according to Tonya Kaiser, secretary for the city of Kansas and its police and fire departments.

Cianna Crittenden, who was flown by helicopter to St. Francis Hospital in Tulsa, might be released on Friday, according to Kaiser.

Cianna's family's mobile home burned about a month ago, and the family was living with other family members, Kaiser said. The Crittenden family's puppy burned in the mobile-home fire.

The child went outside early Tuesday afternoon by herself and likely went to play with the neighbor's pit bull, which was chained up, according to Kaiser.

"The dog has taken a chunk out of her cheek," Kaiser said.

The toddler also had punctures around one eye, and the dog bit her around the neck area and injured a part of her spinal cord.

Emma Parsons, with whom Cianna and her parents, Perry and Stephanie Crittenden, are staying, said Stephanie Crittenden went to look for daughter and began screaming when she saw her in the dog's mouth.

Stephanie Crittenden reportedly opened the pit bull's mouth, and the dog dropped the toddler, according to Parsons.

"As far as we know, she moved her arm, she moved her leg and she can smile," Parsons said. "Those are good signs."







I can not believe they are trying to blame a dog that was chained in his OWN yard! What on earth were the parents doing? How did a 2 year old get out side and to the neighbors without them knowing where she was?

[andreaS15]

I can not believe they are trying to blame a dog that was chained in his OWN yard! What on earth were the parents doing? How did a 2 year old get out side and to the neighbors without them knowing where she was?
People today don't need to take blame when they have a figner to point it somewhere else.... :rolleyes:
argh... I trully love my pet's more and more i read/see stuff like this.

I just don't get why society today cannot take responcibilty for thier own actions, instead they have to go and find someone/something to blame... cuz i mean it's not "their" fault... :rolleyes: .... i hate people.

[DVM12]

What I Want to know, is WHERE WERE THE PARENTS OF THIS TWO YEAR OLD WHO WAS WONDERING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD?!?!?!

EVEN AS A VET TECH YOU KNOW HOW TO TELL BY A DOGS BODY LANGUAGE WHAT MOOD THEYRE IN - AND COMMON SENSE TELLS YOU NOT TO ALLOW YOUR KID TO WALK UP TO A STRAGE DOG UNLESS THE OWNER IS PRESENT AND STATES THE DOG IS FRIENDLY.

NOT ALL DOGS IN GENERAL LIKE KIDS!!!!

[Mygala]

What I Want to know, is WHERE WERE THE PARENTS OF THIS TWO YEAR OLD WHO WAS WONDERING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD?!?!?!

EVEN AS A VET TECH YOU KNOW HOW TO TELL BY A DOGS BODY LANGUAGE WHAT MOOD THEYRE IN - AND COMMON SENSE TELLS YOU NOT TO ALLOW YOUR KID TO WALK UP TO A STRAGE DOG UNLESS THE OWNER IS PRESENT AND STATES THE DOG IS FRIENDLY.

NOT ALL DOGS IN GENERAL LIKE KIDS!!!!

I think it's wrong to blame the parents of the child. They are in a temporary home because of a fire, they might not have even known there was a bad dog out there. Children do unexpected things, especially in unfamiliar surroundings.

No two year old should be expected to know and understand the body language of dogs. ...and body language is not necessarily a good indicator of behavior. It can, and does, give mixed messages sometimes. All strange dogs should be considered potential threats to small children.

Ultimately, I hold the owner of the dog to blame. They set this up by putting a strong, potentially dangerous dog outdoors, unsupervised, on a chain, in an unfenced yard. That's a bomb waiting to go off.

I personally don't think there is any excuse for leaving a dog (of any breed) chained outside. It's a circumstance that has time and again be proven to foster aggression and territoriality in dogs. I consider THAT to be the root of the problem here. If you have a dog like that, you need to have a fenced in yard. Just like any other hazard (like a pool for instance). What's more, chain's break. This would have likely been a worse story had the child been outside and the dog on the loose because of broken chain.

I live in a rural neighborhood where children can run and play. Children shouldn't have to be supervised every minute. Aggressive dogs, however, SHOULD NEVER be outside where anyone can get to them.

In fact I have no use whatsoever with aggressive dogs (of any breed) and think they should be put down.

bob

[LoveMyStaffies]

To not blame the parents is to foster the "victim" mentality. "Its not my fault because I was abused" or "Its not my fault, I didnt xyz because I didnt know"....
The dog should have been in a fenced yard instead of chained. I agree completely for many of the reasons you listed and more.
A two year old cannot appreciate -any- sense of danger to themselves. Therefore, the parents are responsible for their safety. Not the neighbor, not the owner of the dog, not the person passing by in a car. The -parents-.
A toddler has -no- business outside unsupervised in -any- community, rural or urban, well-known or unfamiliar. What if the child had run into the road and been hit? Would the parents be culpable at all? Of course they would. What if the child had been snatched by a pedophile while unsupervised? The parents would still have to harbor some of the blame for leaving the child vunerable.
My point is...in -any- community there are dangers...whether known or unknown, that a parent must take steps to protect their child from, not just from an aggressive dog on a chain.
Family services can show up on the doorstep of a Mom and take her children for neglect if she's sleeping while a toddler is awake, even if nothing horrible happens. I do not see why allowing a toddler outside unsupervised, even if -nothing- happens is any different.

[DVM12]

Mygala,
I Think It is Right to blame the parents ITS THEIR 2 YEAR OLD WHO WAS WANDERING AROUND UN ATTENDED.. THATS IRRESPONSIBLE.
To not blame the parents is just wrong. any GOOD parent would watch their child no matter what ircumstances. So what if they were in a temporary home that doesnt give them the right to not pay attention to a 2 year old child!!!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!


As far as your comment Children shouldn't have to be supervised every minute.

That is THE MOST IGGNORANT COMMENT I HAVE EVER HEARD.

THATS RIDICULOUS.
Yes a little 2 YEAR OLD CHILD SHOULD BE SUPERVISED AT ALL TIMES.

SHAME ON YOU!!!

[DVM12]

To not blame the parents is to foster the "victim" mentality. "Its not my fault because I was abused" or "Its not my fault, I didnt xyz because I didnt know"....
The dog should have been in a fenced yard instead of chained. I agree completely for many of the reasons you listed and more.
A two year old cannot appreciate -any- sense of danger to themselves. Therefore, the parents are responsible for their safety. Not the neighbor, not the owner of the dog, not the person passing by in a car. The -parents-.
A toddler has -no- business outside unsupervised in -any- community, rural or urban, well-known or unfamiliar. What if the child had run into the road and been hit? Would the parents be culpable at all? Of course they would. What if the child had been snatched by a pedophile while unsupervised? The parents would still have to harbor some of the blame for leaving the child vunerable.
My point is...in -any- community there are dangers...whether known or unknown, that a parent must take steps to protect their child from, not just from an aggressive dog on a chain.
Family services can show up on the doorstep of a Mom and take her children for neglect if she's sleeping while a toddler is awake, even if nothing horrible happens. I do not see why allowing a toddler outside unsupervised, even if -nothing- happens is any different.

Diddo to this quote!

You nailed it!

[Mygala]

This is exactly what plays out so often...

As long as Pit owners and supporters continue to shift the blame away from the animals and their conditions, they will never get any traction with the public.

People see a greiving family or a disfigured child and it's obvious where the blame is going to go. Trying to blame the victims, unless there is something glaringly obvious, like animal abuse, is going to go nowhere towards stopping breed specific bans on dogs.

This was a bad dog. It was kept under conditions that made it aggressive and/or territorial. It doesn't matter whether it was a two year old or a twenty year old that wandered into the that yard. If the chain had broken, who would you have blamed then? Blaming two year olds and their parents is stupid, fruitless and ultimately couterproductive.

People need to focus on changing mentality of these owners who encourage aggressive dogs, and the quality of care owners give their dogs so that there aren't incidents like this.

If you continue to try and blame the victims, you will lose in the court of public opinion, ...and that means you'll lose when the laws change to forbid your animals. I don't really care about the dogs or their owners, I just hate seeing people (particularly children) injured and killed by an animal that should be a companion, not a killer.

bob

[LoveMyStaffies]

Mygala, I -agree- with you on many of your points minus the one about children being unsupervised.
It is not my position that the dog and its owner deserves -none- of the blame, but that there is blame to be shared all around.
The dog should never have been kept in those conditions. Period.
The two year old should never have been left outside unattended. Period.
Those of us supporting/owning this breed are not stupid, fruitless or counter-productive because we point out there are others who failed this child, not just the owner of the Pit Bull.
----This child was failed by everyone.-----
Failed by the owner (who kept the dog in poor (though legal) conditions) and by her parents )who could be criminally negligent in allowing the child outside unsupervised....depending on the laws of her area.)

Not only does the mentality of some of those who own these dogs need to be changed, but the mentality of those that do not look outside of their own circle to see if they are responsible or partially responsible as well before pointing the finger at others.

I feel for the little girl. I would be furious at the neighbor.
But at the same time I would be irresponsible if I didnt ask how I could have prevented this as the parent and responisible party for the child. I have children. They occasionally even slip supervision, even the now 3 yr old. Believe me I know how quickly they can slip away. LoL


In the end, what I find most interesting is this: No one is discussing the Golden Retriever that killed the 6 yr old girl in her own yard, her own dog.....it was headlined as a 'Freak accident."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11041895/
Ask yourself, if it was a Pittie would it have been headlined in the same manner?

[Tilt]

Ultimately, I hold the owner of the dog to blame. They set this up by putting a strong, potentially dangerous dog outdoors, unsupervised, on a chain, in an unfenced yard. That's a bomb waiting to go off.

So is an unsupervised child.

I believe both are equally at fault. Children should be supervised and dogs should be supervised. The two should never be left alone together.

If it wasn't a dog that got that child a child molester could have. Or, if they lived in an area ripe with wildlife, the child could even have fallen victim to an animal far more dangerous than a dog.

It is a parent's responsibility to watch over their children. Likewise, it is a dog owner's responsibility to watch over their dogs. And no dog should be chained up. Chaining a dog creates aggression problems (not in every dog but in many.)

[DVM12]

I do believe the owner of the dog should have had the dog fenced not chained, and that in fact part of the blame rests on their shoulders...

However much of the blame rests on the unnattentive parents who were not watching a 2 year old child. That is unbelievably irresponsible, and i still feel the parents are at fault. Who lets their kid walk around un attended, they could get hurt, kidnapped, raped, killed etc....

Stupid Parents is all i have to say to that!

[Mygala]

-snip-

The two year old should never have been left outside unattended. Period.

-snip-

But at the same time I would be irresponsible if I didnt ask how I could have prevented this as the parent and responisible party for the child. I have children. They occasionally even slip supervision, even the now 3 yr old. Believe me I know how quickly they can slip away. LoL


In the end, what I find most interesting is this: No one is discussing the Golden Retriever that killed the 6 yr old girl in her own yard, her own dog.....it was headlined as a 'Freak accident."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11041895/
Ask yourself, if it was a Pittie would it have been headlined in the same manner?

You see my point. I agree the two year old shouldn't have been there alone. But you can't blame a child for being a child. Small kids don't know the dangers of the world. Everyone who has kids has known the fear in the pit of the stomach you know when you realize you don't know where they are or what they are up to... it happens.

Pointing out all the "other" things that could have happened, in no way alleviates the blame for the dog owner. It just makes the people making those excuses look bad, ...as if they care more for a bad dog than an injured two year old. It's just not smart to go there, ...you'll never win in the court of public opinion that way. ...and when you lose there, you end up losing the privelige to own your animals.

As far as comparing this to the incident where the child was accidentally strangled by her dog playing with her scarf..... that was a freak accident. The dog in no way meant to hurt her. I don't see any relevance between these two incidents. I think it'd be a poor idea to try and compare them. People feel sorry for the dog in one incident, and want to put down the dog in the other.

bob

[DVM12]

I have children, and i have my neices and nephews. I am a single parent - my husband is in Iraq, and I still make sure to watch my children, They play in my back yard, or inside, i didnt have a fenced yard when landen was born, and when he was two and i had the 3 other kids to watch I still made sure than when i was out there they didnt just "slip away".

[LoveMyStaffies]

I'm not sure how to quote so here goes:
You said:
As far as comparing this to the incident where the child was accidentally strangled by her dog playing with her scarf..... that was a freak accident. The dog in no way meant to hurt her. I don't see any relevance between these two incidents. I think it'd be a poor idea to try and compare them. People feel sorry for the dog in one incident, and want to put down the dog in the other.


That doesnt answer my question.
If it had been a Pit Bull in the same situation instead of a Golden Retriever, would it have been headlined or seen in the same light as it was in the article written?

The relevance is that perhaps, sometimes, occasionally, the Pittie may have meant no harm and things got out of hand, the same as it did with the GR incident. But it would -never- be reported in the same manner. It doesnt sell as many headlines. Just like painting the sweet faced, furry GR as a killer doesnt sell as well as painting him as a playful pet that got carried away.

[Tilt]

In the end, what I find most interesting is this: No one is discussing the Golden Retriever that killed the 6 yr old girl in her own yard, her own dog.....it was headlined as a 'Freak accident."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11041895/
Ask yourself, if it was a Pittie would it have been headlined in the same manner?

Doubtful. However, that was not an attack. I don't believe that story is relevent. There are other cases of dogs attacking who weren't Pit Bulls. Few get reported. Here are some of the ones that did...

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2000/dog_kills_baby_los_angeles.html - Family's Pomeranian kills baby girl

http://www.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.671755.0.man_left_injured_and_shaken_a fter_attack_by_st_bernard.php - St. Bernard attacks man

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/6188134/detail.html - Husky attacks toddler

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10652469/ - Pack of Chihuahuas attack police officer

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3763038,00.html - Family's Alaskan Malamutes kill 7 y/o girl

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060110/transplant_nose_060110/20060110?hub=SciTech - Labrador Retriever mauls woman (who is his owner,) woman later undergoes face transplant

http://www.kcentv.com/news/c-article.php?cid=1&nid=8856 - Bloodhound attacks elderly woman

The list goes on... They just don't garner as much attention.

[Mygala]

You're absolutely right, if it had been a Pit it might have been painted in a different light in the press. It just goes to show that you can't control the press, when they find something that's plays to the pubic well (Pitbull Attacks Child), they go with it. No doubt about it...

This is only getting worse too, I don't think we've seen the worst of it yet. There don't seem to be any good options on the horizon for Pit owners....

I have a good friend who owns several Pits. Her personal opinion (opposite of most Pit owners) is that if there are tough enough regulations agains Pit owners, the good owners will stick it out and eventually the bad ones will be caught and put out of the business of Pit ownership. Once Pits are only owned by resposible people, the incidents concerning them will drop off to nil.... She figures this way, Pit owners can take a hand in writing the legislation and make sure they have an even chance of seeing and end to the tunnel....

She's resigned to the pending legislation, she just going to try to help write it.

It's her opinion anyway... food for thought.

bob

[LoveMyStaffies]

Absolutely!!!
I applaud your friend because I am in 100% agreement with her. And I've felt that way for years since the increase in BSL became so so apparent.
Instead of banning breeds outright, increase the registration fee for them. Enact tougher laws against viscious animals.
-Anything- but take away the breeds my family loves so dearly. (Pitties, AmStaffs, Staffs...etc etc..that get lumped in with Pitties)
Unfortunately, unlike your friend, I am uncertain on how to go about getting involved in the process of writing the legislation that would do the most good.
Fortunately I also (for now anyway, #*$&&#$^& the move the Military will eventually insist we make!!!) live in a state that doesnt have anything looming on the horizon. We're just a little too independent for that up here. LoL. We dont even have motorcycle helmet laws.....only got a numeric speed limit a few years ago as well. Lol
Anyway..didnt mean to turn this into a debate. But it was a good one imho.

[Chrisanne]

I understand there are very strong opinions here. However, I am asking that we please keep it civil. You can state your opinion without belittling someone with an opposing opinion.

*steps off the mod box*

My opinion is that the dog owners were wrong to chain the dog unattended. However, as a parent, I feel the parents were equally if not more so than the dog owner. The fact is no one will blame the parents and they WERE criminally negligent.

[scottyc510]

Bob I must disagree I child absolutly must be watched every second, a toddler above all else. Also there was nothing saying that this dog was a "bad dog" The dog was minding its own business in its own yard when she came up to it. No one knows what she did, I am guessing but maybe she tried to play with it like she did her pup and was to ruff as most kids that age ( I say most because I know not all are my 3yr old for one knows how to play with an animal right) are with animals, and it provocted the dog. If she was pulling on it or hitting it or poking at it you cant blame the dog for protecting its self. If I came up to you and did that I would exspect you to hit me! The poor Little girl is not to blame she is only 2, but her parents are the ones here to blame. My son has never made it out side without my knowledge much less to a neighbors yard up to a strange animal. A good mother knows where her kids are at all times. And yes I am saying that this little girl has a bad mother for neglecting in the care of her daughter.

[scottyc510]

Just read the head line for tomorrows paper and go figure!



Oklahoma dog-mauling victim released from hospital, animal put down

[Scarlette]

I have to side with the people that are blaming the parents.

My Red Doberman, Scarlette, LOVES to be outside. In the summer I let her stay out in a 30x10 kennel during the day. If I were to go to town for groceries, or whatever, and some kid wanders into my yard, lets her out, she plays to rough and knocks the kid down breaking an arm, leg or whatever......I'm sure that I would be blamed just because a Doberman is considered a "mean" dog. Am I irresponsible for allowing my dog to be outside? No, I don't think so because she is confined (even though it's a kennel, not a chain).

Like scotty said, this dog was on a chain in it's own yard, minding it's own business. We don't know if this was a family pet that stayed outside during the day while the family was at work. Just because it's a Pit Bull some people automatically jump to the conclusion that it's a fighting dog. :shrug:

My brother had a Pit Bull Terrier when we were kids. She was one of the best dogs our family had. It never ceases to amaze me how these dogs are automactically labeled as mean dogs no matter what their upbringing was. :(

[Tilt]

I have a good friend who owns several Pits. Her personal opinion (opposite of most Pit owners) is that if there are tough enough regulations agains Pit owners, the good owners will stick it out and eventually the bad ones will be caught and put out of the business of Pit ownership. Once Pits are only owned by resposible people, the incidents concerning them will drop off to nil.... She figures this way, Pit owners can take a hand in writing the legislation and make sure they have an even chance of seeing and end to the tunnel....

What kind of regulations are we talking about? Right now the majority of BSL I read about is outright banning of pits, euthanizing pits, sending pits to labs to be tested upon, etc. In the softer BSL you have things like mandatory muzzling, which is inhumane when done long term (in my opinion) and can create aggression problems in dogs. This hurts the animals and, since it does, I refuse to support any of it. The animals are my number one concern.

Also, what we should do is concentrate on weeding out ALL bad or irresponsible pet owners, not just those that own pit bulls. They aren't the only dog to bite, attack or otherwise harm humans or other animals. They aren't even the most likely to bite. They are, however, the most likely to be involved in a fatal attack. Still, so few kill each year. It's hardly the epidemic that the media would have us believe.

We need to stop irresponsible owners. They are the source of dog attacks, abuse, neglect, cruelty, and the reason we have a dog overpopulation problem.

The majority of dog attacks involve an unneutered male dog. Mandatory spay/neuter is something to consider, perhaps. Companion animals do not need to remain intact (except in rare cases where health problems make it unsafe to alter.) Companion animals who also happen to be championed, health and temperament tested should be allowed to remain intact. No other animals should be bred. We do not have enough homes for all the dogs we create.

[scottyc510]

If you didnt have a fear of elected officals before, here ya go. This from a story in todays paper stating that a legislator from Oklahoma is proposing a Ban on Pitt Bulls. here are his comments:

Whole story can be read at http://www.joplinglobe.com/story.php?story_id=223525

State Rep. Paul Wesselhoft, R-Moore, already had planned to introduce a bill modeled after a Denver, Colo., municipal ordinance aimed at ridding the state of pit-bull terriers.

"Many people who own pit bulls say that it's other owners who train their pit bulls to be vicious," Wesselhoft said. "For them it is never the dogs' fault."

Wesselhoft said he is calling on the Oklahoma State Department of Health to declare an epidemic of vicious dog attacks and issue an alert to parents, advising them to keep their children away from the animals.

"I firmly believe that any parent who allows their small child to play with a pit bull, especially without direct supervision, is committing an act of child neglect, whether they mean to or not," Wesselhoft said



I dont know where to start with what I see as wrong in those statements.

[luvmybichon]

I am a mother with 4 boys 7, 5, 3, 2 . I put a fence up to keep them safe and they are never out of my sight. When a stray dog would come around I told them to come and get me and my oldest was only 4 at the time. You cannot expect a child to do much more than that. It is your duty as a parent to keep them safe. It is your duty to be a good pet owner and keep them safe also!

[smilingrl19]

I'm not sure where to start, everyone has made really good points...and to a degree I understand bobs idea of the owners of the dog being at fault because it is being chained up and he is right. I dont however believe that the "dog" was at fault...How could someone blame the dog for basically "protecting" his territory, thats how dogs are, everyone knows that...even if you don't own a dog. HOWEVER the parents of that poor child is ******* Idiots...excuse my french, like others said who leaves a 2 yr old undattended. In the article it specifically says that the mother went looking for her daughter...in other words she was NOT watching her. TERRIBLE...everyone should learn a lesson from this and its unfortunate. Granted I don't believe that one needs to live on top of their children but thats provided they know that what they are doing and where they are going is safe for them without supervision. WOW i just can't believe this whole situation its terrible for the girl and for the dog, but i do not believe that the owners of the dog and the parents should be getting pitty, they were both wrong.

[LdyDragon]

I find it so sad that Pitts are being banned right and left when it should be the owners who get banned from the state for being stupid owners!

Pitts are completely outlawed here in The Netherlands and it just breaks my heart since it's not the dogs fault but the irresponsible owners and breeders. I would have loved to own one just to show the world they are sweet when raised right. And it seems Rotties are not far behind them on the ban lists. More and more places are not allowing Rotties either. :(

[Chinchilla_Girl]

I'd just like to make the note that the dog was on a chain in it's own yard. It did not say the dog was on a chain 24/7 and left unattended all the time, blah, blah, blah...
My father has a dog but doesn't have a fenced in yard. The dog goes out on the chain for 10-15 minutes several times a day. Does he stand there and watch the dog that whole time? No, he doesn't. She's not abused, not neglected and not "left on a chain" but if something like that were to happen, because she was on the chain at the time, you would all just assume she was a chained yard dog? That's not fair...and it's not the point. The dog was chained in it's own yard. The parent's weren't watching their 2 year old child. Why is the dog owner being held responsible for the neglect of the child's parents? And what parent lets a 2 year old wander around outside unsupervised? Shoot, I don't let my 8 and 9 year olds anywhere outside unsupervised with the exception of my own fenced in backyard. They sure as heck aren't wandering the neighborhood unsupervised

[DVM12]

Diddo to Chinchilla Girl. My point exactly!

[Phawn]

My pit loves kids, but i refuse to let him around kids because im terrified that he will lick a child and the child will scream and it will open up a big can of worms that i would rather leave shut. On that note, i think it is a dog owners responsibility to keep his or her dog in a fenced yard, and it is a parents responsibility to watch their children at all times, especially in the "terrible twos". This poor little girl never had a chance, and it is my belief that if she hadnt been bitten by that dog she wouldve been hurt some other way wandering around the neighbourhood unattended. The blame should rest on the dog owner and the parents 50/50.
I can only dream of the day when pit bulls are not negatively depicted in the media, but i have a funny feeling that day is a long ways away.

I think it's great that everyone on here can express their feelings without starting wars. It's always good to hear from both sides of the fence :)

[shalomsteph1]

I used to be a claims examiner for an insurance company.
Once, I had a six figure claim for a dog bite injury to a child. The insured had a homeowner's policy with us, They had a mixed breed dog that was behind a fence AND chained with a dog house. There were "Beware of Dog" signs on the fence AND on the gate. Basically, the owners knew the dog would bite and did everything they could to warn people.

A neighbor girl was verbally warned several times to stay away from the dog. She still went into their backyard, and was attacked by the dog.

She sustained serious injuries that would require plastic surgery, and she was in therapy to deal with the trauma of being attacked by the dog. The claim was for over $200,000. I didn't want to pay it, because I did not think the homeowners were liable for her injuries. However, the company decided to go ahead and pay the claim, which will result in the insured taking a hit on their rates.

I guess ANY dog that bites is a liability, even if all precautions are taken...