HELP! Pregnancy, cage, and companion issues

[cedes_of_grey]

Hello,

I have two degus, Diego and Penelope. They were bought as a "class pet" for my chemistry class, but I have 90% claim over them. ^_^ When I got Penelope she was pregnant with what I am assuming was her first...litter? (Is that what they're called for degus?) Anyway, about a month in she had three or four stillborn babies. I'm not sure why, except that we didn't know she was pregnant and had been handled excessively and probably roughly by dozens of students. I've brought her and Diego home now because of the immaturity of said students.

It's been about two and a half months and she's looking pretty wide...I think she might be pregnant again, but I'm not sure. They had a nesting box, in which they built a cute little nest. However, when I gave them more nesting material they ignored it, and when I checked on the nest under the box, they had completely flattened it! It worries me that they don't seem interested in building another box.

If they mated right after the last litter, I can be expecting babies around January 16. However, Diego was much smaller and younger than Penelope when I got him, and I don't know if he was old enough to be mating at the time.

What are the chances that she is pregnant, and what happened to their nest? Will they build another?

I also am looking into buying them a newer, bigger cage to accommodate for the babies. Is it okay for the cage to have plastic in it? The cage I am looking at says it is for "exotic" animals and has a degu on the front. However, I've read that plastic can be harmful.

If I get a wire one, what can I place over the wire shelves so they don't hurt their feet? And is it okay to move them with a half a month to a month left of her pregnancy? Or should I wait until after she gives birth?

My third question is this- should Penelope have a female companion to help her? There is a horrible pet store in town selling degus, which is where I bought D and P from...I've been gradually rescuing as many as a can and giving them to people, because the conditions are heartbreaking. There's one female left whose tail is all raw and the puff is gone! When I went in today I almost threw something. She too, looks pregnant. Would it be alright to introduce her this close to the birth (if Penelope's pregnant...)? Would this help Penelope? And I could only do it if I got the bigger cage...

I really need help! Anyone who can offer any advice will have my most profound gratitude!

[MañasMom]

I don't have experience with the pregnancy parts, but there are many here who do.

However, I think I can help you with your cage questions!

The plastic in the cage can be an issue because Degus are chewers. All little rodents are chewers, but I have to say Degus are much more avid chewers than any other kind of rodent I've ever seen. If the plastic is part of the cage walls, they will chew through it in a very short time (30 minutes or less) and will free themselves. (And then run around triumphantly!)

So if the plastic isn't vital to the cage, you might take it out and replace it with something else - like a "Leapin Ledge" or something similar. If the plastic IS vital to the cage and can't be replaced, it's best to reinforce it with something else on the inside so they can't chew through it.

Mesh levels - you can use just about anything to make them solid flooring. I use a carpet scrap. My Mom has 2 guinea pigs, and I believe she lined their levels with shelf liner, and then several layers of newspaper, and then puts bedding on top of that. You could also use ceramic tiles, big river rocks, or anything else you can think up.

And as for their nest, well, they will build one when they need it. If you are providing plenty of nesting material, and they're just ignoring it, it's because they don't want it or need it I think. As long as you continue to provide nesting materials, they'll use it when they want. Some Degus are avid nest builders, and others don't even want to hear the word nest, let alone make one!

You are a good Mama! (Or Papa, LOL)

[Binky]

Wow. You've got quite a lot on your hands now don't you!
Alright, here's what I think...
If she looks wide, either she is, in fact, pregnant, or she's just fat. Hopefully the 'fat' option.
Nesting wise, don't be worried about that. As MañasMom said, they probably feel as if they don't need to worry about that.
On average, degus are able to start mating at 6-to-8-ish weeks of age. It varries between each and every degu, but usually then they are able too. Even though it is problem causing if a female of that age gets pregnant (happened to me. 3 pups born, all passed away within a week. )

For the plastic, well, it depends. Once again as MañasMom stated, if the plastic is vital to the cage, or most of the cage is made of plastic, either put something over it from the inside so the little buggers can't chew or find a cage with little to no plastic. (Side note: I had my girls in a cat/small dog carrier one day while moving, and went into the room to find chewed pink plastic covering the floor and little whiskers poking out of hiding places getting ready to run if I tried to capture them)

You could put an assortment of things over the wire to protect them from bumble foot. Any as said above or those hay mat things (somewhat expensive though) fabric, that mesh plastic stuff from craft stores (can't think of what it's called) cardboard, etc.

It would be ok to move them now, but you'd have to be extra careful for Penelope to get to the new cage. I'd probably let her walk into the dust bath or something then put it next to the door of the new cage for her to walk into it herself.

Getting Penelope a female friend would be a good. And could also prevent any more pregnancies from happening. Cute thing is, if both are pregnant and the babies are born from both, they will share nursing the pups. They don't care who is nursing or how old that baby is. It's adorable, really.
Depending on the personalities of the two girls, I don't see a problem in introducing the two. I'd just do the vanilla dust bath pre-introducing stage and do that whole speal. I've noticed that when female degus are pregnant, they aren't very mean. They pretty much let everything go. Depends though. It probably isn't that way for all degus.

Good luck! I'm sure you will need it. I know what you are going through. My orginal girl Baby had 3 litters this year and one of her July-born babies got pregnant as well! How- I don't know. I think someone let her near one of my boys. -.- Once again good luck and I hope MañasMom, mine, and anyone else who'll post after me has helped you!

[Amethystbelle]

Sorry to hear of your predicament

Firstly i would say there is a 50/50 chance either way, males usually can start reproducing at between 3-6 months of age so it is entirely possible she may be pregnant. Especially as you have noticed she has gained weight, have you noticed whether she has slowed down or not?

I wouldn't over worry about the nest, mine are all male and they all make nests and often destroy them again to be remade a few days if not weeks later. If you are worried just provide plenty of extra hay and soft straw in the nest box so the option is there to build one if they want too if not they still have plenty of warm and cosy bedding.

Regards the cage try to avoid plastic as much as you can as they will chew through it in no time trust me i've seen the evidence with rescues i have taken in, they often come in plastic based cages chewed to pieces. Metal based cages are also better in the long run as they are more hygenic and last much longer in my opinion. With the metal shelves you have two options one is to cover them with either cardboard or carpet (yes some of my boys have carpet ) or the other option what i have done in the majority of my cages is to replace the metal shelves with wooden ones. I don't think it would hurt Penelope moving her to a new cage as long as you didn't handle her, maybe carry her to it in a box or something as you shouldn't handle a pregnant degu over much

In answer to your third question i don't think its a good idea to introduce a new female into the equation at this moment in time as if Penelope is pregnant it could stress her out as intros take time and patience and its not just a case of putting them in together and hoping for the best. Also its a good idea to quarantine new animals before introducing them to existing ones as a matter of precaution. I would personally leave it as it is at the moment and then maybe keep one or two of the females as company for Penelope.

I would also have a spare cage on hand and keep a close eye on Penelope as you will need to remove Diego as soon as the pups arrive to prevent them breeding again as females come straight into season after giving birth. It is usually safe to put dad back in on the fourth day (dad will usually help look after the pups) but it is entirely upto you and you could keep him seperate and then introduce him to a boy later on or you could get him neutered so he could live with the girls.

Goodluck with it all

[cedes_of_grey]

Thank you guys so much! This was a lot of help.

I decided to buy (this sounds crazy) a really tall bird cage and build wooden shelves. It's big and tall for the goos and was a lot less expensive than buying a "small animal cage." It's also a lot easier to clean! I've moved them in successfully using a box for Penelope and they seem to like it.

I cleaned out their old cage, and in it I put...Mika! The newest addition to our degu family. I'm going to put her in the other cage after the babies are born, I'm thinking, so that Penelope won't get too stressed out. The cages are next to each other though, and they're bathing in the same dust, so they are getting used to each other already. Diego keeps chipping at her through the bars, and Penelope looks jealous!

What can I do to help the introduction process go as smoothly as possible? Will they fight for female dominance?

[Binky]

That (the fighting) may not happen with the babies there. Then again all degus are different. Girls don't really do that often anyways. (Mine just scream at eachother sometimes. Usually it's over hogging a treat) And with the babies their main concern is to take care of them. And if Mika is the one whom you think is pregnant, then they'll be pretty close together since they both have pups to take care of.

[Kendalle]

are you planing on seperating the male diego from penelope? you may need another good sized cage for when you split the male babies from the females so you don't end up with billions of degus

[Amethystbelle]

I agree you really need to seperate the male as soon as Penelope gives birth to avoid breedback

I think you are doing the right thing waiting as you need to quarantine Mika to make sure she is ok and let her adjust to her new surroundings before introducing her to the others. I normally give degus a week to settle in before going any further although in your case i would wait till the babies are grown to avoid any undue stress to either party. Also with them both expecting while it would be nice to think of them bringing the babies up together they are strangers to one another and friction could come from rushing putting them intogether so its best to take your time. Intros are all different some happen quickly whereas others take time and a lot of patience. You are doing the right thing in keeping them next to each other so they can get used to each other being around and the sand baths are a good way to scent them up. At a later stage before introducing them add a few drops of vanilla essence to the sand and allow to dry over night and then let them roll in that as it helps mask their scents and aides easier introductions. When the time comes for introducing you will need a neutral area so either a spare cage or a bath tub is great, you will also need another pair or two of hands as all the degus must go into the area at the same time to prevent any territorial behaviour. If you go through previous degu introduction posts i have written quite a few times about introducing degus and what to do and what to look out for when introducing etc.... Might be worth looking them up and having a read

[cedes_of_grey]

I think I may have a problem...

I was holding Mika near Penelope and Diego's cage, and she jumped out of my hands, onto the edge of their cage, and starting fighting with Penelope! By the time I got her off, Penelope's little nose was bleeding. Then Penelope turned around and started fighting with Diego!! I got them separated, and they're fine now, but I'm worried about the wound, and their reaction to each other. Are pregnant degus more possessive/meaner than females normally are?

Mika is getting very listless and bored...she lies in the cage for hours and gets up every once in a while and chirps through the bars at Diego. They seem to get along fine... I'm worried that she's lonely.

Would it be okay to let Diego and Mika play for half an hour, or would that cause more problems between Mika and Penelope? What if I gave them all vanilla dust baths first? If this won't work, what can I do to keep Mika entertained? She's used to being a cage full of degus at the store...as I said she was the last one and didn't look too happy when I got her. She's starting to act similarly again...

[Amethystbelle]

Firstly regards the wound you could bath it with a tepid salt water soloution to keep it clean if you are worried.

Secondly i wouldn't try introducing them till things have calmed down as it sounds like Penelope and Mika have both gotten worked up which isn't good for them if they are pregnant. Degus are very territorial so Penelope would have been trying to protect her cage from the intruder. Intros take time and don't happen over night. I don't even start thinking of scenting till after the newbies have been quarantined and then after they have been next to the exisiting degu for a week. I then scent them by swapping bedding etc... And then after another week i start to think about introducing them in a neutral area.

I don't think it would be a good idea to let Mika and Diego play together as if Diego carries Mikas scent back to the cage it could cause a fight between him and Penelope not to mention the fact if Mika isn't already pregnant then she could come into season in the prescence of Diego and you would have another litter to deal with. For now i would leave them as they are, seperate Diego from Penelope as soon as she starts to give birth or has given birth to prevent breedback and then once the babies are grown you could try introducing the two girls again. Have you thought about what you are going to do with Diego once the babies are born? Are you planning to put him back with the girls or keep a male as a buddy for him?

What toys does Mika have to keep her amused? A wheel is usually a good start, what about hanging tubes. I get mine free from local carpet shop and i hang them with chain in the cages, they love running through them and hiding in them and chewing them up. Ropes also good too as are ceramic flower pots