Pepper going downhill :(

[laydeerodentzz]

Okays, so I havn't posted many threads reasently because I've had no problems with my rats I couldn't deal with, however, Pepper is really starting to go downhill now
Pepper has never been 'quite right' before; ever since I got him he's had porophrine around his eyes and even when he's been on antibiotics it hadn't gone..
I suppose that when he was on antibiotics it wasn't to help the porophrine, but I would have thought it may have gotten better.
The reason why he was on antibiotics was because he was peeing blood in his urine & we all thought it was a UT and we got told by the vet that she thought it was an inflammed bladder. Not so long ago I noticed Pepper had changed and did some research. I dug deep into the case of mycoplasma, which said it was common for rats with a serious case of it to have blood in their urine and constant porophrine.
Well, the bad news is that the blood in his urine has come back, however theres not as much as before by a long way, which in it's own little way is good..
I know that your all going to tell me to take Pepper to the vets and that was also my first reaction, even though after some thought, I didn't... this is why...
Pepper has changed, he is very jumpy, gets scared at small things and can get stressed out with the other rats easily. Pepper, even though he is dumbo, has been 'over taken' by the other rats and now the smallest of all of them and a lot of presure has come down on him reasently because Husky and Arthur are at the stage when the are maturing and fighting a lot with perticually Pepper ecause he seems to be the target.. unfortunatly.
The thing is, Pepper HATED having the baytril last time and sometimes, even his nose bled when we were trying to 'force' it into him in a way.
Trouble is, because he is going down hill, putting him through this again is only going to make him worse and nothings going to get better, so I don't want to take him to the vets because I know that all it's going to cause is more pain and suffering, which at this point I don't want Pepper to go throuh again
I can afford it, don't get me wrong, it's just the way that Pepper is thats holding me back and I don't know what to do
It doesn't bother Pepper at all, but he is very clingy to me and I was wondering if there was any way other than taking him to the vets that I can help him at home, without making the situation worse and having him get over depressed with the antibiotics Also, at the end of the month I'm going on holiday for a week or two and all the rats are beng left with someone else to look after, which may cause more stress for Pepper and I don't want the other lady to have to give him antibiotics for me becaus of the way he gets when it's given and it's just going to make the whole matter a lot harsher.
I hope you understand why I don't want to take him to the vets, please help && I'm sorry about the long post, thanks for reading it all if you have

[Cazsamps]

I had a dumbo rat and she was just like Pepper in the fact that she always had an RI or something wrong. She was constantly on baytril and it didnt do anything for her in the end. I gave her Garlic capsules and Echinacea and that seemed to perk her up a bit. I also started feeding her mushed up food so it was easier for her to eat etc and she lost a LOT of weight and was always cold so i had her on a heat pad but try as i did nothing worked and in the end she died but i know i did the best for my girl and i am sure you know you are doing the right things for Pepper i wish you all the luck in the world hun and loads of hugs for pepper xxx

[clairebee1]

Aww hun *hugs*
You are doing your best and yes i understand you totally about the vets when my dog got ill i tried everything to avoid the vets because she got stressed out if we took her.
The only thing i can say is what my nan has always said.
You will know when you need to take him to the vets or when he is suffering.

Have you tried him on vitamins ?
Maybe some babyfood aswell ?

Lots of love from me and my boys to you and pepper hun xoxoxoxoxoxoxox

[laydeerodentzz]

Thanks so much
Yeah, Pepper is the lightest of them all and the smallest, he really is not doing well and I just don't think that anything will make a difference from the vets, I mean, last time when he was on baytril it took just over a month for anything to clear up, so I think I'll try some of the things Cazsamps suggested, did you get the Garlic capsules and Echinacea from your local pet store? I know I can get a heat pad because he is usually cold, but I've never thought anything of it before.
Baby food also sounds like a good Idea, maybe I could make it slightly warm for him to, that would be good!
I think I'll mix some vitams in with the water, any suggestions which one, Like vitamin C or K or something?
I don't need to seperate him from the others though do I? I mean, I think he's fine where he is, he just needs some extra TLC and a few things added in for him && sorry to hear about your lil'girlie cazsamps, Pepper is only 8 months old, but he seems to be happy and to me, thats all that matters
What should I do when I go on holiday? Do you think I should just ask the lady to keep an eye on him, keep him warm and to give him vitamins, will that be fine? I also want to add quickly that he is really bad at balancing and I have to be careful when he is out because if climbs up my arm he comes really close to falling and I get scared that he might fall in his cage and hurt himself, what should I do? Should I just leave him and just try to prevent where I can, I guess thats the only thing I can do really?
She has had experiance with rats to though so I should think she'll be fine with them.
Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated and Pepper enjoyed his cuddles lol xxxxxxx

[Vanilla_Rat]

I am sorry about Pepper.
Hopefully he gets better...at least a little.


When you go on vacation,if you trust this lady enough and she has experiance,then yes.Get her to give Pepper the TLC.

[mtmaughan]

Call your vet and see if you can get a prescription for some Baytril without bringing him in. That will avoid a lot of stress by itself. A lot of vets will do that for rats because myco is so chronic that rats will need antibiotics periodically through their whole lives.

With the meds, I don't force them if I can avoid it at all. There are lots of things that you can try mixing it with. Applesauce and baby food (banana is a big hit) are great options. Sometimes I even just put it in little drops onto pieces of cereal and it soaks in and they chomp it right up. If you can get the meds, I think you should at least try to find some way that he'll eat it voluntarily. Then no one will be stressed.

As a side note, I'm not a huge fan of Baytril in the first place. The stuff that worked best for my rats was actually a children's antibiotic called Azithromycin. I don't know how available it would be over there, but here I had to get it from a regular pharmacy and it came mixed in fruity flavor for kids so the rats just gobbled it right up. It was expensive.

[clairebee1]

I have this liquid vitimins my friend who has experiance with rats told me about its like cod liver or something for their water bottle i give them it every month and it has really made my boys look alot healthier but yeah i agree with mtmaughan, ask them could you collect the stuff instead of bringing him in even ask them if their anything else they could reconmend for him see if they have some information for ya !

And as for the lady you will only be gone awhile !! just let her know everything thats wrong with him and show her what to do and what not and everything should be fine hun !
Good luck xoxoxox *Big Hugs*

[laydeerodentzz]

Thanks everyone, yeah, I think I will contact my vets and get some sort of antibiotics, Pepper does love mashed bannana so thats a great Idea, but, wouldn't I need to give him that seperate from the other rats? Or would it be fine if they all had some?
I think I'll also have a look for the childrens stuff too though, because as mtmaughan said, the baytril doesn't really work.
Thanks for your help again

[Cazsamps]

I was syringing warm salt water into Missy and that seemed to also perk her up a bit. I left her in with her cagemates as she was ok in climbing etc and i figured it would not be fair to take her away from her friends. She was only 9 months old but was such a poorly rat from day 1. I miss her terrible but i know i did everything i can to help her. The garlic and echinacea i bought from my local supermarket plus i gave them ALL fresh garlic and crushed garlic in their water to make sure they were getting it!!!!!My vet advised the garlic and echinacea. ALL of my 8 rats still have the garlic capsules everyday to ensure they dont all get ill and so far it is working lol! I have a dumbo boy with head tilt and he has been on baytril but the head tilt hasnt gone so no doubt he will be the next ratty i am caring for round the clock. I had Missy sleeping in a cat bed with extra blankets of a night next to my bed so i knew she was ok! I really hope Pepper pulls through but if not be sure hun that you have done EVERYTHING you could possibly do and you have made all the RIGHT choices for him xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[mtmaughan]

Quote: Originally Posted by laydeerodentzz I think I'll also have a look for the childrens stuff too though, because as mtmaughan said, the baytril doesn't really work.

You'll have to ask your vet about it, as it's a prescription medication.

[laydeerodentzz]

I'll see what I can do, I've not seen much blood so thats good, it's just on occations when it happens. I will give him some garlic and have mixed vitamins in with his water, at the moment I'm trying to keep his cage as clean as I can while I find some of the things you've suggested and ring up my vets.
Thanks

[mulder]

Aww I'm sorry about Pepper. I hope he finds health soon *hugs*

[laydeerodentzz]

I've tryed giving warm salt water from a syringe to Pepper, but he wont have it from a syringe. All the other rats will though LOL
I'll have to put it in a bowl or something.

[luvboyrats]

I would definitely recommend calling your vet and seeing if he will prescribe something stronger without coming back in. Baytril is actually an excellent antibiotic and if it's not working there are a few reasons why. 1. it's a virus and not a bacterial infection 2. if it got a little better but didn't stay better then you probably have an infection that's stronger than baytril or baytril resistant (happens a lot in animals that are treated multiple times), 3. As is all too common in small animal vets, your vet gave you a very weak diluted prescription of baytril suspended in something else.

I think with the symptoms you're describing, not treating it is very dangerous and Mtmaughan's right, if you can get your hands on the stronger meds there are lots of creative ways to dose an animal without a lot of stress.

[laydeerodentzz]

okay, I will see if the vet will give me something stronger, but I think that if I need anything more than the baytril the vets will probably want to see him. Do you think I should take him in anyway?
And thanks Luvboyrats for your advice