Sasami - ick - help!

[kathydip]

Sasami we could use your opinion. The fishes we had wintered in the basement have gotten a very bad case of ick. I swear I took a good look at them no more than 2 weeks ago and they were fine. And now they are awful! I am not sure exactly when it started. I found them yesterday. I put in melafix immediately. We started them on antiparasitic food last night. We moved their pond insert outside today. We did a complete water change and added stress coat (of course) and stress zyme. And we added API's super ick cure. It consists of 3.6 mg Malachite Green and 60 mg Nitrofurazone. So right now there is no melafix in it. I also didn't add any aquarium salt. I ran out but I am not sure with the ick meds I should add the salt. We have to repeat the ick cure in 48 hours. We are going to contine the anti parasitic food until they appear better.
Is there anything else we need to do?
I cannot believe how bad they are! I feel terrible. I thought we were going to be able to keep them in the basement in the winter. Now I just am not sure what we are doing next year. We have been discussing sinking the small pond insert in the ground and keeping them outside but it won't be so expensive to keep it warm enough for them.
We are also talking about a large tank for our back bedroom. But I just don't know.
Any advise about that part would also be appreciated.

[Sasami]

Firstly, don't feel bad. It's normal in a tank with ich for the fish to look fine one day and completely infected the next. Although Melafix won't hurt them or anything I wouldn't use it. It mostly helps wounds heal...it won't get rid of the ich.

Definitely add aquarium salt when you get some. One other thing I would recommend is to raise the water temperature with an aquarium heater. Slowly raise it a few degrees a day until it's around 80-81 degrees.

The best treatment for ich is raised temperatures, aquarium salt, and water changes. I don't recommend using medications unless absolutely necessary but since you've started treatment you need to continue until the end. Malachite Green is really good at getting rid of ich so hopefully it will help.

I can't offer much pond advice since I don't have a pond. Everything I know about ponds is from books, websites, magazines, etc. Are these common/feeder goldfish? Or the fancy varieties? I know commons really need a pond (or something similar) but the fancies do very well in a large aquarium. Actually, there are even a few "breeds" that do best inside.

[kathydip]

Thank you so much - but what are you doing responding that late! You should have been in bed.
But again thanks! I did rush into work hoping you had responded.
I will get out the heater and increase the temps. I assumed since they were gold fish and could technically live outside all winter that they would be just fine in cold water. I have a thermometer so I can monitor the temp. We are right outside of Philly so it is still chilly at night. And it's only 60-70 during the day.
I will pick up some aquarium salt on the way home and add that.

They are just regular old gold fish. The kind you would win at a fair. But you know how attached you can get to fish. They are our babies. We started with just 2 and they had 3 babies. We have had some near misses with them. Like Poppa fish who was in the pond filter for a while and I thought he was dead when Jay saw him breath. We threw him back in and he looked pretty bad but he made it. Then Fuzzy who I found laying on the kitchen floor (they were in for the winter). I picked her up and she was actually stuck to the floor. She lost all her scales on her side but made it. They are pretty hardly fish so I know if we do it right they will make it.
Thanks so much.
The meds say to add more in 48 hours and then 48 hours after that do a 25% water change.
After I am through with that how often should I do water changes? How much should be done?
And thank you for making me feel better about how quickly ick can strike. I just could not get over how bad they were. The poor things have bumps on them. One even has bumps on his head!
But I swear they look a bit better already. I think they were happy to be back outside.
Thanks again!

[Sasami]

Haha, I'm always up late. I have insomnia.

Yeah, normally they should be kept in cool temperatures. But when treating for ich it's always a good idea to raise the temperatures. The reason is that it speeds up the life cycle of the parasite which is of course helpful since the meds will only affect ich in the free-swimming stage. Basically, the high temperatures will speed the life cycle of ich so it goes to the free-swimming stage. Then the salt and meds will kill it.

Keeping the gravel nice and clean with a gravel vac will be helpful during treatment. You don't have to do a water change every day or anything...just enough to keep things clean.

Also, turn up your filters to the highest setting and add some airstones or powerheads. Make sure you have plenty of surface agitation. The reason is that water loses oxygen in higher temperatures. Ich meds often decrease the amount of oxygen too. So you really need to make sure there is plenty of oxygen. But since it's an outdoor pond I'm guessing you already have pretty good filtration .

Good luck! Remember to continue treatment for at least three days after the spots have disappeared and the fish seem fine.

[kathydip]

I can always sleep. I love to nap!
The meds I have only say to treat twice. Do you think that is enough? Today was beautiful. 82 degrees so it the water had a good jump start in warming up. There is a lot of water movement. The filter we have is made to look like a fountain. So it is always bubbling up.
I didn't know that increasing the temp makes the ick cycle quicker. That is interesting.
I am picking up the salt tonight. I am annoyed because the new store I wanted to go to is not open yet. They have a sign on the door that says open and the hours but when you walk up the inside door says they won't be open until mid may. I am so mad. I have to pick up meds for Belle from our vet tonight and I will be going past Petsmart so I will stop there.
We don't have any gravel in the bottom. It is still hard to tell how dirty it is since the liner is black. Although in the sun light it is a bit easier.
Thanks again!

[Sasami]

I wish I could always sleep ;_;. It usually takes me hours. My mom is the same way.

I would just follow the directions . You shouldn't need to dose a second time.

If you don't have any gravel then that's probably good...stuff won't get trapped on the bottom .

And 82 degrees? That's not fair, lol. It's funny how even though our states are near each other we have different weather. Today was nice but not that nice.

[kathydip]

Yes it is beautiful today. Tomorrow it's supposed to rain and be yucky. But the rest of the week is supposed to be sunny just not that warm. Only about 70. Summer has to come sometime...right?

[Sasami]

Tomorrow it's going to be in the low 60's here and rainy. There might even be a thunderstorm which is pretty weird .

[kathydip]

It was supposed to rain today but it didn't. It turned out to be sunny and in the 60's. Not too bad. I think the fish are enjoying themselves. I tried to warm their water but I think the heater is broken. I am going to use Oscar's heater. He will be fine with his overhead lights warming the water. I don't even know why I got him a heater!
Today is the second dose of the meds. The salt is in. They really are looking much better already!

[Sasami]

That's good to hear!!!!

Yeah, it didn't rain today here either...but I think it's about to. The sky is completely grey.

[kathydip]

Okay tomorrow the instructions said to do a 25% water change. The fish look loads better but one still has nasty bumps on his heas and some on their sides. She I just add salt to the amount of water replaced and then what? Do you think they will continue to improve on their own? Should I do another water change on Saturday and replace the salt again? How much water should I change?
We are planning on cleaning the pond Saturday. I am not putting them in until they are completely better. I would not want to have to cure ick in the pond. It's not big but bigger than I would want to deal with in that case.

[Sasami]

Quote: Originally Posted by kathydip Okay tomorrow the instructions said to do a 25% water change. The fish look loads better but one still has nasty bumps on his heas and some on their sides. She I just add salt to the amount of water replaced and then what? Do you think they will continue to improve on their own? Should I do another water change on Saturday and replace the salt again? How much water should I change? We are planning on cleaning the pond Saturday. I am not putting them in until they are completely better. I would not want to have to cure ick in the pond. It's not big but bigger than I would want to deal with in that case.

Yup, always replace the salt when you do a water change. I would keep doing 25% water changes...you don't want to stress them out too much. Maybe do a couple a week. They should improve on their own .

Just remember to continue treatment even after they look fine.

[kathydip]

Thanks. I will keep it up even after they look better.
I am so glad they already look so much better. I am sure if I follow your instructions they will make a full recovery.