Angry over breeder

nkrz · #1 09-08-2004, 07:43 AM

I asked the breeder I bought my female poodle from a couple of questions about breeding. I asked her what age would be good to breed her at IF I ever intend to have a litter because my sister in law wanted to mate her male with my female....anyway, to make a long story short, she lied to me about the registration, telling me that when I got my dog, she made sure that the akc registration was limited so I couldnt breed her. I got out all my paper work and located the information I needed on the akc website, and found out I have full registration on my poodle not limited. I dont understand the need for her to lie about that. Its not like I'm competing against her. If there is anyone who breeds poodles on this forum, could someone let me know, because I have a few other questions about my poodle too. Thanks for reading and letting me vent a little lol.

Chrisanne · #2 09-08-2004, 10:31 AM

Maybe she meant to mark the registration as limited but didn't by mistake.

CTChin · #3 09-08-2004, 02:00 PM

Is she a show breeder? Some breeders are very protective about their lines and rightly so. Did you ask why she didn't want you to breed her?

pitbulliest · #4 09-13-2004, 08:41 PM

It would be great if all responsible breeders had a rule like that in their contracts..that you're not allowed to breed their dogs and must have them fixed and proove it. The world would certainly have less unwanted and homeless pets...but that's just Utopia.
I don't know anything about your breeder, nor do I know whether she's a responsible one to begin with...what I do want to know is why do you or your sister want to breed these dogs?

There is absolutely no reason you need to breed ANY dogs unless you have a long history of showing the dogs first...have complete health records of every sort for both the male and the female..are registered..have full contracts that state the dogs are ALL to come back to you if the buyer doesn't want it or can't have it anymore for some reason...etc...etc...etc..

There is sooo much involved when it comes to being a breeder. And i truely believe that it's only meant for a very few, select, experienced, educated, responsible, and caring people that want to breed the dogs in order to "better" the breed...not for the money. All reputable and truely responsible breeders actually lose more money than they make with each litter. And to answer your question, you should wait until the dog is at least 2 and a half years before breeding one..WHICH I definately don't recommend doing in the first place. I suggest you spay/neuter your pup.

beloved2615 · #5 10-02-2004, 11:57 PM

I wouldn't breed to much but one little wouldn't hurt if you know what you are doing, if you have all the needs met and space and people that would want them. I do agree that you need to know what you are doing and make sure you have a place for all the dogs. There are alot of animals that need homes out there, so just don't over do it. I don't see why she would just lie to you without a good reason, instead of having hard feeling you should have ask her what was what. That way you know what is going on, you could be getting mad over nothing. Doesn't hurt to ask, it clears things up. Good Luck

Miyabita · #6 10-25-2004, 04:09 PM

A lot of breeders try to keep their pet quality puppies from being bred. They may know that the puppy carries a genetic disease (not actually has it, but could pass it on to the offspring). Or the dog may just not be good enough show quality to do the breed any good by reproducing. Dog breeders get enough pet quality puppies out of show lines to fill the needs without pet quality dogs being bred. Ultimately it is up to you of course, but keep in mind that if your dog is not show quality and being bred to a show quality dog, all you are really doing is adding more pet quality dogs when there is already a shortage of homes for pet dogs. Limiting registration is something a breeder can do to help stop the reproduction of dogs that will not help out the breed. Sadly, a lot of unscrupulous people will still breed the dog and either sell the pups without registration or register them through the Continental Kennel Club (which will register even mixed breeds, and does not care whether or not the original breeder wanted the dog bred). Then those people sell "CKC registered dogs," which is confusing because CKC also stands for Canadian Kennel Club, which is a club that is just as reputable as the AKC. So people see that and think they are getting a great registered dog, and it might not even be purebred. Not saying you would do that, of course, just making a note that it is sad that it is done.

I have no idea why she would not tell the truth about the registration. My only guess is the same as Chrissane's, that she meant to mark it as limited.

DirtySouthChins · #7 10-25-2004, 04:34 PM

IMO.... I feel that most breeders (specially the show breeders) will put a limitation on the AKC paperwork stating that the person buying can not in no way breed the puppy they are buying when that pup comes of age. Some breeders sell their litters at different qualities with limitations, for example: some will sell show qualities litter with a limitation stating that the person buying doesn't have to spay/neuter their pup for show purposes but can not in no way breed that animal. Some will sell pet quality litters with a limitation in the contract stating, that they must get their animal spayed/neuterd when that animal becomes of proper age, and provide proof that this has been done or legal actions can be taken... It all depends on the breeder really.
I don't agree with this statement that pitbulliest said

Quote:


	There is absolutely no reason you need to breed ANY dogs unless you have a long history of showing the dogs first...have complete health records of every sort for both the male and the female..are registered..have full contracts that state the dogs are ALL to come back to you if the buyer doesn't want it or can't have it anymore for some reason...etc...etc...etc..

ONLY because I don't feel that is fair... if a person wants to breed one litter and has NO intention of ever breeding again, and is breeding for pet purposes only then really it isn't that big of a deal.
However I will say that there are way way too many animals that are in shelters that need good homes (purebreeds, mutts, etc.) and that I personally would never breed any of dogs/cats because of this.
The breeder that you bought your poodle from may have had the intention of putting a limitation on the AKC paperwork, but may have messed up

but you clearly have all rights to breed if that is what you choose to do.

PicOlio · #8 10-25-2004, 04:35 PM

No clue why she would lie to you BUT I would certainly go directly to her and ask her outright why. Maybe she made a mistake, maybe there was a misunderstanding, or maybe she'll have a reason. No matter what...I would ask.

As far as what the others in this thread are passionately try to say, I have to regretfully agree. You and your sister may be a perfect match and it may be "oh so cute" to have the puppies between the two dogs but it's difficult to know whether or not the two dogs are a perfect match.

If both are not at LEAST 2 years old and both have not had ALL of the testing done on themselves, and their parents, and their parents parents, and BOTH are not "Show Quality" e.g. there are no disqualifying faults in color, size, etc, then it really would be a bad idea to breed them. The litter could easily end up with either more "pet quality poodles" for which there are already too many in the world or something far worse such as a genetically defective poodle which will require enormous care or worse...

Had I have read this thread several months ago I would've thought everyone was being a bit to "prissy" and way too "dramatic". I mean geezzz mutts breed with other mutts all of the time and people are taking care of healthy puppies all over the place. One would think a couple of pure breds would actually be easier to breed so what's the big deal. But I know differently now. I've seen, and am still feeling the pain, of a pure bred puppy that was not born of two perfect parents/grandparents/great grandparents. NOTHING is worth the risk of creating yet another a homeless dog or the UNCONSCIONABLE RISK of creating a puppy that will live a very short life in an enormous amount of pain. Because this situation has hit so close to home for me, never again will I look at thread like this and wonder why these people are being so picky over something that seems so "cute and simple".

Please do take the time to SERIOUSLY research the breed and examine both dogs, as well as their family, prior to considering breeding them. If they are both CERTIFIABLY excellent then possibly you would be doing the breed well by breeding them and helping to perfect the poodle population but if they are not PERFECT and you do not plan to improve their status via shows etc...then by all means spay/neauter and LOVE THEM DEAR for what they are ... your babies.

PicOlio · #9 10-25-2004, 04:47 PM

P.S.

Please don't read these posts as a personal attack. I know they are not meant to be. I think it's just something many are passionate about and, at least for me, it can be a bit scary. Like I noted above, it's a bit close to home for me and an issue I'm still in a great deal of pain over...so if I at all came off "harsh" that certainly was not my intent. I used to look at my rotty and my shepherd and think what cute mutts they could make together lol. Ok I looked at my cat and my friend's shitzu and thought the same thing so I guess I'm way over the top

No matter what you decide, I'm sure we would like to offer whatever advise we have in the area.... ultimately it is your choice. I just hope it's a choice you make VERY CAREFULLY and I'm sure that's what you are trying to do by asking questions.

Disclaimer: Outside of snuggling with other people's poodles, I know little about them...

I found this page which lists some of the hereditary risks that poodles can carry
http://wa.essortment.com/healthproblems_rlpg.htm

I also found this page of links/info for those who are considering breeding their own dogs...
http://www.wonderpuppy.net/breeding.htm#breeding

Possibly it will provide a good starting point for learning more

PicOlio · #10 10-25-2004, 04:51 PM

Here's one titled:

Should I Breed My Poodle?
http://www.vipoodle.org/shdbdpd.htm

Chinchilla_Girl · #11 10-25-2004, 06:11 PM

I have to lean toward what pitbulliest said. Part of the reason there are so many dogs in shelters and rescues is due to people "just wanting to have 1 litter" because they think their dogs are great and would make nice puppies. Well, I have to say that would make those people Back Yard Breeders. I'm not coming down on you, I have to admit, I'm guilty of it myself. Kali was bred once and once produced 13 puppies, one of which came back to us a year later as a rescue. No matter how well you screen potential owners, there is just no guarentee how they will be treated once home.
Unless you are prepared to spend thousands temperment testing, hip certifying, health testing and showing both dogs to get unbiased opinions from the experts, I wouldn't recommend breeding. There are plenty of pure bred poodles in shelters and rescues and people buying their pups from you means one more shelter dog gets euthanized.
Please consider spaying your girl and give some shelter pups a chance.

My advice is..