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Old 07-02-2004, 03:53 AM
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Double Merle is Just WRONG


I was just looking at some American sheltie breeder sites and found one breeder that BREEDS double merles! This is horrible.

There are few reasons why a breeder should breed merle-to-merle (or in the case of dachshunds, dapple to dapple). A strikingly high number of the puppies are born deaf, blind, and/or with deformities. One of the main reasons breeders do this, however, is in hopes of producing a dog that, when bred to any colour, will produce only merles (dapples). It's been said on some sites and I firmly support this, the creation of one good stud dog is not worth the hundreds of other dogs that had to be put down because of health problems and deformities.

If anyone would like to find out more information on the merling gene, I rounded up some sites for you.

- Merle Genetics
- The Double Dapple
- Lethal Whites (Rescue group for double merle aussies, but some information can be found here)
- The Trouble with Merle
- Sheltie Coat Color Genetics
- Genetic Nightmares


I will continue to look for more links in case some of you don't feel this is enough information. And I would like to hear your opinions on merle-to-merle breeding, too.


NOTE: Double (Homozygous) Merles should not be confused with the Colour-Headed white, which is attained through different genes.


Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only breed that the standard ALLOWS double merles is in dachshunds. Australian Shepherds, Collies, Shetland Sheepdogs, and I believe Great Danes all disqualify the dog in the show ring if it is more than 50% white.
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Old 07-02-2004, 11:14 AM
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I think that's horrible. Why risk so many unhealthy puppies. Sad and irresponsible IMO.

I would never do it. It would be like breeding white to white in chins. I just can't imagine trying something like that. Sad thing is, these people that do it and see nothing wrong with it will never stop.
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Old 07-02-2004, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisanne
It would be like breeding white to white in chins.


I didn't know you couldn't breed white to white chinnies. Hmmm ... it's interesting to learn that, though.

I once wanted to go into genetics, but chemistry was such a weak point for me I decided against it.

Genes are a funny thing, and I think any breeder of any animal should be well read on their animal's genetic background and what can and cannot (or should not) be done in breeding.

But you are right, Chrisanne, breeding any animal with the knowledge that most or all of the litter will be defective is very irresponsible, indeed.
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Old 07-02-2004, 07:14 PM
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I agree, it is awful! Niki my aussie is actually from a double merle breeding, I didn't know this b/c her mother only had a small amount of blue merle on her face, at her eye. I didn't even see it, otherwise I would've said something, but I am actually glad I got her just b/c I know she is safe being my dog, she lives at my dads but she is still mine, I will have her back soon. Anywho, I think doxies are allowed to be double dappled in the ring. I still think that is awful b/c of those defects, it's so sad! I have a link to aussielads on my website, once I learned about Niki I looked into it more. It's so sad... Thanks for sharing those links, it is an important thing for people to know, as it is so awful because not all the puppy's come out normal, most of them do not.

Ok, my 2cents is over now.... lol
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Old 07-03-2004, 02:00 AM
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Double Dabble is allowed in doxies. They've even had ONE (and only one) double dapple win at Westminster a long time ago (maybe in the 80s, I believe?)
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Old 07-03-2004, 03:49 AM
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Sometimes these double merles are accidents. Merle Cocker Spaniels are at a high risk for this accident to occur. As it turns out, merle occasionally occurs in Cocker Spaniels. Merle is not, however, an accepted coat pattern. The AKC will not recognize merle coats in Cocker Spaniels. They just flatout won't. The problem? Purebred AKC registerable Cocker Spaniels are forced to be registered as Roans, rather than Merles. Which means? Someone can own a Merle Cocker Spaniel who's registered as a Roan (thus not knowing that they're really a merle) and breed to a known Merle or even another Roan who's actually a Merle and not realize it. Now the lethal double merle comes into play.

The AKC NEEDS to recognize the merle pattern in Cocker Spaniels. Puppies and dogs are at risk because of their refusal to accept a rare pattern.

BTW, due to the fact Cockers are usually kept with long hair, it's not easy to see the merle markings. It comes out looking Roan or something. Puppies, with their short puppy fur, are easily seen as having the merle markings. Any Cocker whose fur is cut short will show their true markings as well.
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Old 07-03-2004, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pihlaja
Double Dabble is allowed in doxies. They've even had ONE (and only one) double dapple win at Westminster a long time ago (maybe in the 80s, I believe?)


I did not know that a double dapple won at Westminster, that is interesting. I do know that it is not as common for a dapple to win any big shows so that's neat to know that, not neat that he/she was double dapple though.

Roz, that's similar to Niki, her mother looked just like a tri-color, except for the small part of merle on her face, I didn't even notice until I saw that one of her pups was almost all white with blue eyes, poor thing.
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Old 07-03-2004, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roz
Sometimes these double merles are accidents. Merle Cocker Spaniels are at a high risk for this accident to occur. As it turns out, merle occasionally occurs in Cocker Spaniels.


I didn't know cockers could come in merle. This sounds very familiar to the sable merle shelties, however. AKC (or any registry, really) does not acknowledge the colour sable merle, and it's sometimes (like the cockers) very easy for a sable merle to look just like a regular sable.

I don't understand why they can't accept these colours. They don't really have a REASON for it. (And honestly I think sable merles are very pretty. I need to find a picture of a merle cocker! )
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Old 07-03-2004, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dappledoxie
I did not know that a double dapple won at Westminster, that is interesting.


Here's a picture of him.
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Old 07-04-2004, 12:10 PM
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Oh wow, thanks for finding that!
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Old 07-04-2004, 11:57 PM
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That's really sad. How can anyone do that? To kill so many dogs (in essence) just for one good stud dog?

That's just WRONG.
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Old 07-07-2004, 07:52 PM
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for curiosity sake, what is wrong wtih breeding white and white together or merle to merle together? What happens?
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Old 07-07-2004, 07:58 PM
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With merle to merle breedings pupppies could be born deaf, blind, or even disfigured(like born without eyes, ears). Better explained here at Aussielads. This is dealing with Australian Shepherds but it is basically the same with any merle/dapple breeding to one another, seen in many breeds like Aussies, Shelties, Dachshunds, and more...
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Last edited by dappledoxie; 07-07-2004 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 07-08-2004, 09:09 PM
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poor things!!!! thanks for letting me know and putting out the site
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Old 07-09-2004, 05:02 PM
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No prob! Thanks for reading!
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