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  #1  
Old 11-08-2006, 01:50 PM
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Unhappy

Puppy is to much for me to handle!


I'm not sure if your all familiar with my puppy Petey- But I need to vent right now, before I cry at work.

Petey is about 4months or so, and he is just to much lately. I posted about our trainer visit (no one responded) The trainer recommended for such a high energy dog, keep him in an outside kennel during the day instead of his crate. Great, he loves it!! But not when I'm home, besides I want him with me after I come home, I don't want an outside dog. I figured he can have the best of both worlds! Well, he is still if not even worse- he is so hyper that its embarrassing to have people over. When he reaches 6 months, then he will start his major training, but for now its just crazy. And now me and my husband are fighting about it!! The crappy thing is he wants a dog, not me-But I'm the one who takes care of Petey 100% of the time!! And because I'm so stressed and burnt out- I'm no fun to talk anymore! I don't even want to go home because of the stress of the puppy!!

Please everyone, any tips would be so grateful! What are my options? I've heard of pro zac for animals, is that crazy??
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Old 11-08-2006, 01:56 PM
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Prozac is an easy fix. Your puppy is not too young for you to start training him. What kind of behaviour is he exhibiting? Puppies have a lot of energy to burn and you need to work some of that off. What kind of breed is your puppy?
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:05 PM
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We think he is an Australian Cattle Dog, Pit bull, Dobbie mix

He knows how to sit, stay,lay down,give paw, and come- all when HE WANTS TOO!

He is constantly just running around the house, jumping on me or where ever the cats are. Taking cushions off of the couch and trying to kill them. He is always jumping up on people, biting- he is very mouthy. I understand too that puppies do this stuff- but this is 24-7! He has plenty of toys, is not bored!! But its like, just friggen please lay down on your bed and chew your toys for a little. I can't even fold laundry around him, he wants to attack everything!!
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:07 PM
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I don't really know all that much about dogs, but he sounds full of energy. Maybe if you can give him an extra long walk or something like that, it will tire him out a bit and so calm him down for a while at least.
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:10 PM
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Sounds like he is a very high drive. You need to practice bite inhibition. You have quite the combo there! Australian Cattle dogs can be stubborn and get bored very easily. I don't think your puppy is too young to practice the Nothing In Life Is For Free program: http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

Here is more about practicing bite inhibition:

The Bite Stops Here
By Dr. Ian Dunbar

Puppies bite, and thank goodness they do. Puppy biting is a normal and natural puppy behavior. In fact, it is the pup that does not mouth and bite much as a youngster that augers ill for the future. Puppy play-biting is the means by which dogs learn to develop bite inhibition, which is absolutely essential later in life.

The combination of weak jaws with extremely sharp, needle-like teeth and the puppy penchant for biting results in numerous play-bites which, although painful, seldom cause serious harm. Thus, the developing pup receives ample necessary feedback regarding the force of its bites before it develops strong jaws – which could inflict considerable injury. The greater the pup’s opportunity to play-bite with people, other dogs and other animals, the better the dog’s bite inhibition as an adult. For puppies that do not grow up with the benefit of regular and frequent interaction with other dogs and other animals, the responsibility of teaching bite inhibition lies with the owner.

Certainly, puppy biting behavior most eventually be eliminated: we cannot have an adult dog playfully mauling family, friends and strangers in the manner of a young puppy. However, it is essential that puppy biting behaviour is gradually and progressively eliminated via a systematic four-step process. With some dogs, it is easy to teach the four phases in sequence. With others, the puppy biting may be so severe that the owners will need to embark on all four stages at once. However, it is essential that the pup first learn to inhibit the force of its bites before the biting behaviour is eliminated altogether.

Inhibiting the force of bites

No painful bites The first item on the agenda is to stop the puppy bruising people. It is not necessary to reprimand the pup and, certainly, physical punishments are contra-indicated, since they tend to make some pups more excited, and insidiously erode the puppy’s temperament and trust in the owner. But it is essential to let the pup know when it hurts. A simple "ouch!" is usually sufficient. The volume of the "ouch" should vary according to the dog’s mental make-up; a fairly soft "ouch" will suffice for sensitive critters, but a loud "OUCH!!!" may be necessary for a wild and woolly creature. During initial training, even shouting may make the pup more excited, as does physical confinement. An extremely effective technique with boisterous pups is to call the puppy a "jerk!" and leave the room and shut the door. Allow the pup time to reflect on the loss of its favourite human chew toy immediately following the hard nip, and then return to make up. It is important to indicate that you still love the pup – it is the painful bites which are objectionable. Instruct the pup to come and sit, and then resume playing. Ideally, the pup should have been taught not to hurt people well before it is three months old.

It is much better for the owner to leave the pup than to try to physically restrain and remove it to a confinement area at a time when it is already out of control. If one pup bites another too hard, the bitee yelps and playing is postponed while the injured party licks its wounds. The biter learns that hard bites curtail an otherwise enjoyable play session. Hence, the bite learns to bite more softly when the play session resumes.

No jaw pressure at all The second stage of training is to eliminate bite pressure entirely, even thought the bites no longer hurt. When the puppy is munching away, wait for a nibble that is harder than the rest and respond as if it really hurt: "Ouch, you worm! Gently! That hurt me you bully!" The dog begins to think "Good Lord! These humans are so mamby pamby I’ll have to be really careful when mouthing their delicate skins." And that’s precisely what we want the dog to think – so he’ll be extremely careful when playing with people. Ideally, the puppy should no longer be exerting any pressure when mouthing by the time it is four to five months old.

Inhibiting the incidence of mouthing

Always stop mouthing when requested: Once the puppy has been taught to gently mouth rather than bite, it is time to reduce the frequency of mouthing behaviour and teach the pup that mouthing is okay until requested to stop. Why? Because it is inconvenient to try to drink a cup of tea, or to answer the telephone, with 50 pounds of pup dangling from your wrist, that’s why.

It is better to first teach the "OFF!" command using a food lure (as demonstrated in the Sirius video*). The deal is this: "If you don’t touch this food treat for just two seconds after I softly say "Off", I will say "Take it" and you can have the treat." Once the pup has mastered this simple task, up the ante to three seconds of non-contact, and then five, eight, 12, 20 and so on. Count out the seconds and praise the dog with each second: "Good dog one, good dog two, good dog three…" and so forth. If the pup touches the treat before being told to take it, shout "Off!" and start the count from zero again. The pup quickly learns that it can not have the treat until it has not touched it for, say, eight seconds – the quickest way to get the treat is not to touch it for the first eight seconds. In addition, the regular handfeeding during this exercise helps preserve the pup’s soft mouth.

Once the pup understnads the "Off!" request, it may be used effectively when the puppy is mouthing. Say "Off!" and praise the pup and give it a treat when it lets go. Remember, the essence of this exercise is to practise stopping the dog from mouthing – each time the pup obediently ceases and desists, resume playing once more. Stop and start the session many times over. Also, since the puppy wants to mouth, the best reward for stopping mouthing is to allow it to mouth again. When you decide to stop the mouthing session altogether, heel the pup to the kitchen and give it an especially tasty treat.

If ever the pup refuses to release your hand when requested, shout "Off!", rapidly extricate your hand and storm out of the room mumbling, "Right. That’s done it, you jerk! You’ve ruined it! Finish! Over! No more!" and shut the door in the dog’s face. Give the pup a couple of minutes on its own and then go back to call the pup to come and sit and make up. But no more mouthing for at least a couple of hours.

In addition to using "Off!" during bite inhibition training, the request has many other useful applications: not to touch the cat, the Sunday roast on the table, the table, the baby’s soiled diapers, the baby, an aggressive dog, a fecal deposit of unknown denomination… Not only does this exercise teach the "Off!" request, but also to "Take it" on request.

Never start mouthing unless requested: By the time the pup is five months old, it must have a mouth as soft as a 14-year-old working Lab; it should never exert any pressure when mouthing, and the dog should immediately stop mouthing when requested to do so by any family member. Unsolicited mouthing is utterly inappropriate from an older adolescent or an adult dog. It would be absolutely unacceptable for a six-month-old dog to approach a child and commence mouthing her arm, no matter how gentle the mouthing or how friendly and playful the dog’s intentions. This is the sort of situation which gives parents the heebie-jeebies and frightens the living daylights out of the mouthee. At five months of age, at the very latest, the dog should be taught never to touch any person’s body – not even clothing – with its jaws unless specifically requested.

Whether or not the dog will ever be requested to mouth people depends on the individual owner. Owners that have the mental largesse of a toothpick quickly let play-mouthing get out of control, which is why many dog training texts strongly recommend not indulging in games such as play-fighting. However, it is essential to continue bite inhibition exercises, otherwise the dog’s bite will begin to drift and become harder as the dog grows older. For such people, I recommend that they regularly hand-feed the dog and clean its teeth – exercises that involve the human hand in the dog’s mouth. On the other hand, for owners who have a full complement of common sense, there is no better way to maintain the dog’s soft mouth than by play-fighting with the dog on a regular basis. However, to prevent the dog from getting out of control and to fully realize the many benefits of play-fighting, the owner must play by the rules and teach the dog to play by the rules. (Play-fighting rules are described in detail in our Preventing Aggression behaviour bookelt.*)

Play-fighting teaches the dog to mouth hands only (hands are extremely sensitive to pressure) and never clothing. Since shoelaces, trousers and hair have no neurons and cannot feel, the owner cannot provide the necessary feedback that the dog is once more beginning to mouth too hard. The game also teaches the dog that it must adhere to rules regarding its jaws, regardless of how worked up it may be. Basically, play-fighting teaches the owner to practice controlling the dog when it is excited. It is important to refine such control in a structured setting, before a real-life situation occurs.

In addition, play-fighting quickly becomes play-training. Starting the games with a training period, i.e., with the dog under control in a down-stay, produces utterly solid stays at a time when the dog is excited in vibrant anticipation of the game. Similarly, frequent stopping the game for short periods and integrating multiple training interludes (especially heel work and recalls) into the game motivates the dog to provide eager and speedy responses. Each time the owner stops the game, he or she may use the resumption of play as a reward for bona fide obedience. Everything’s fun!

Potential problems

Inhibiting incidence before force: A common mistake is to punish the pup in an attempt to get it to stop biting altogether. At the best, the puppy no longer mouths those family members who can effectively punish the dog but, instead, the pup directs its mouthing sprees toward those family members who cannot control it, e.g., a child. To worsen matters, parents are often completely unaware of the child’s plight because the pup does not mouth adults. At worst, the puppy no longer mouths people at all. Hence, its education about the force of its bite stops right there. All is fine until someone accidentally shuts the car door on the dog’s tail, whereupon the dog bites and punctures the skin, because the dog had insufficient bite inhibition.

Puppies that don’t bite: Shy dogs seldom socialize or play with other dogs or strangers. Hence, they do not play-bite and hence, they learn nothing about the power of their jaws. The classic case history is of a dog that never mouthed or bit as a pup and never bit anyone as an adult – that is, until an unfamiliar child tripped and fell on the dog. The first bite of the dog’s career left deep puncture wounds, because the dog had developed no bite inhibition. With shy puppies, socialization is of paramount importance, and time is of the essence. The puppy must quickly be socialized sufficiently, so that it commences playing (and hence, biting) before it is four-and-a-half months old.

If a puppy does not frequently mouth and bite and/or does not occasionally bite hard, it is an emergency. The puppy must learn its limits. And it can only learn its limits by exceeding them during development and receiving the appropriate feedbacks.

------

If your pup or adult dog is having serious bite inhibition problems, is snapping or aggressive in any form or fashion, please consult an animal behaviorist.
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:12 PM
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I second the walk. Walking is a great form of exercise and wears pups out. How much interaction do you have with him? He may have a lot of toys but he needs to be mentally and physically stimulated by you as well.
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:14 PM
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I completely understand what you're going through. My first dog, a dachshund named Rocky, was a total nightmare as a puppy. I trained him and taught him his commands but he was still insane. Rocky was so hyper that the only time he would even lie down was when confined to his crate. He ended up being outside more then I wanted because it was just so hard to deal with him. I tried taking him on walks every day but it would take forever since he'd stop to sniff everything...he didn't get excercise out of it. He destroyed his toys so quickly that they didn't help keep him busy. When he was a little older I would give him rawhide which helped keep him calm but he went through it pretty fast and later became aggressive when he had it (so now he doesn't get it). And when I got my rabbits he tried to eat them. I was so stressed out the first few months that I started to wonder if getting a dog was a bad idea...maybe I wasn't ready. Part of it was that no one else would help me at all...even if I just needed someone to watch him while I took a shower.

He's still a mischeif maker and never got over his rabbit aggression problems but he's much easier to deal with now that he's an adult. I think some dogs are just crazy as puppies and end up growing out of the behaviour. What also helped was getting him neutered once he was old enough...without all those hormones he became calmer and more likely to listen to me. I also worked with him and got him to behave better on the leash so I could take him for walks...now I walk him every day and he's much calmer.

Raw bones and Kong toys are great for keeping dogs busy...I use them with Rocky on days where he's being crazy or can't go on a walk. I also run around with him in the yard so he gets out his energy.

Just hang in there! Now that Rocky's older he's definately more mature and I'm glad I didn't decide to rehome him or something. He has his moments but is alot of fun too .

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Old 11-08-2006, 02:35 PM
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Ok first wow everyone for the fast responses!! And Denise, thanks for ALL the info, I quickly browsed over it- But will print it out to really take it all in!!

Sasami- Can I just say I love you!! You hit the nail on the head with how he is, and how I feel!! Its true that I'm afraid to go shower, and its true that he goes out more and more!!

Since seeing the trainer, we set up the huge eyesore of a kennel where he is in about 5-8 hours a day. I'm sure to also have alone time with him as well before I go to work- and when I get home. The trainer thought by him being "free" outside while I'm away it would burn him out a bit. Yes its great, cause I'm not rushing home anymore to let him go potty, but as for being tired-NO!!

Now when he is in the house, he is on a very long leash that allows me to be able to have full control if I need to, and to jerk it if he is biting me or any other behavior thats not good. He isn't suppose to see me actually jerk the leash though, so it can be hard to do this at times, especially when my hands are in his mouth!
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:10 PM
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sounds like you have gotten some great advise. my only comment is that aussie cattle dogs are Working dogs & they get stressed out if they dont have a job to do. I have no idea what kind of job you can provide him that will simulate herding but maybe someone here knows of something
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:18 PM
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maybe you could try taking him to the dog park if you have one locally. i dont have as much time for holley anymore that i did when i got her so i try to take her to the dog park once a week. it is her time to run and be stupid and it has calmed her down a lot.. even if i have to stay out there for a few hours. besides being a good work out, its good for her to get out with other dogs.. as they are pack animals.

also when teaching her.. do not give her any slack. make sure you stick with whatever you are teaching her so that she does not get mixed messages. this will make them frustrated and confused about what you are telling them and what they are/are not suppoed to do.
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:46 PM
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I totally hear yah, girl!!!

First off - no one else has mentioned this, but why isn't that guy of yours helping out? You need to get him to help you. He should be walking the dog, too.

Great advice from everyone. I think a dog park would be great. He needs to exert a ton of energy. Does he play fetch?? You could try that, too.

Hugs to you!!!!!!! I totally understand!
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:10 PM
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Ah, just like my girl. She is a Great Dane, and its not that she doesn't know the commands - she's a very fast learner, and knows them all easily. Its just that sometimes she decides to ignore me. Its more about if she wants to do it than if she knows how.

She is ABSURDLY stubborn. There are days, esp when she went into heat and was a TERROR, that I would sit in the floor and cry. She's awful about biting, and during her worst times she's given me scars that I'll have all my life. She's... high maintenance to say the least.

Sometimes I regret getting her. I know that's awful - its like asking myself why did I have this baby? - but I had planned to get a different dane. This one needed me, her mom wouldn't feed her, and the owners were BYBs over their heads - so I took her home, bottle fed her, and now she's at a healthy weight and thriving. But I planned to get a healthy one, one that had been properly socialized and wouldn't have these behavior problems.

Don't get me wrong - I love that dog SO much. But somedays... she frustrates the heck out of me. I just get so discouraged. Even now, when she's doing better, I'm black and blue and scabbed.

The only thing that makes her better is having a strict schedule and taking long walks. Letting her run in the back yard does not seem to help - yes, if it rains all week and she gets no back yard time, she's a terror, but leaving her out all day instead of in her crate makes her worse. Outside time is a priveledge. So are tummy rubs and ear rubs. She can go on a walk if she behaves. Play time is over when she doesn't. And it works, mostly, but she's still ... a problem child.

So I've been there. Its hard, especially with such a big, strong, defiant dog. She's 5 mos, and I'm hoping we make it. She's been all the way through puppy class and has started intermediate class, so maybe there's hope? If you need some one to commiserate, I'm here.
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:22 AM
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Thanks again everyone!! Let me give you all a brief update from this morning. The main reason my husband really isn't a help right now is his work hours- he works Sun-Thurs 2pm to 4am So when I'm home- hes not. And the past week he has been sick, so he really couldn't do much with Petey while he was home! Anywho, I decided when I got home last night, I wasn't going o worry about anything around the house- no chores!! Petey seemed ok, not so annoying! Then when my husband came in at 4am, instead of going straight to bed- he let the dog out with him, while he cleaned the house etc (so sweet) So this morning Petey was a GEM!!! He laid on his pillow eating his chewy, as I got ready for work!! YAY!!!!!! LOL! I even woke up the hubby to tell him how awesome the morning was because of it- Its a long road ahead, but theres hope, thanks for letting me vent!!!!
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:56 AM
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Im glad you had a better night and morning! I did just want to add too about the Kong, I do reccomend those! My dogs (boxers) are very high energy, and if the Kong is filled with peanut butter they will be glued to it until they get every last drop! (Sometimes I even mix the pb with their kibble and freeze it so they have to work harder at it.) They barely ever touch the kong to play with it, but if its filled with pb, its a whole different story! So whenever you need a break just fill a kong with pb! (You can get Kongs online or at pet supply stores. )
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Old 11-09-2006, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmb9101
Im glad you had a better night and morning! I did just want to add too about the Kong, I do reccomend those! My dogs (boxers) are very high energy, and if the Kong is filled with peanut butter they will be glued to it until they get every last drop! (Sometimes I even mix the pb with their kibble and freeze it so they have to work harder at it.) They barely ever touch the kong to play with it, but if its filled with pb, its a whole different story! So whenever you need a break just fill a kong with pb! (You can get Kongs online or at pet supply stores. )



Oh believe me, I have kongs!! And I fill them and freeze them to last longer....try 5 min!! Hes intense with it, cleans it out in no time!
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