She Bit me!!!

[Jennicat]

I think contributing to her behavior as "being a pit" is somewhat unfair. I have an Aussie Shepherd that nailed me in the thumb when I grabbed her while her foot was caught in a fence (it was stuck, and it was hurting her). She broke the skin on my thumb, and I bled profusely. She was immediately contrite, dropped to a submissive position, and it's been 4 years and she's never harmed any of the rodents, myself, the cats, or my boyfriend since. She, in fact, loves my gerbil, and loves to give him kisses when he's in my lap for supervised time out.

But since she's an Aussie, which is not a "vicious" breed, most people wouldn't think twice about my decision. I'm not the least bit concerned that that was "all" it took for her to bite me. Pain and fear are very common factors in dog bites. Even humans behave in unpredictable ways when they are in extenuating circumstances. And now my vicious attack dog runs from earthworms outside.

[CHERYL2121]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jennicat I think contributing to her behavior as "being a pit" is somewhat unfair. I have an Aussie Shepherd that nailed me in the thumb when I grabbed her while her foot was caught in a fence (it was stuck, and it was hurting her). She broke the skin on my thumb, and I bled profusely. She was immediately contrite, dropped to a submissive position, and it's been 4 years and she's never harmed any of the rodents, myself, the cats, or my boyfriend since. She, in fact, loves my gerbil, and loves to give him kisses when he's in my lap for supervised time out. But since she's an Aussie, which is not a "vicious" breed, most people wouldn't think twice about my decision. I'm not the least bit concerned that that was "all" it took for her to bite me. Pain and fear are very common factors in dog bites. Even humans behave in unpredictable ways when they are in extenuating circumstances. And now my vicious attack dog runs from earthworms outside.

Thats VERY comforting to hear!! I wish I could show you all her, (I brought the wrong wire) so hopefully tomorrow I can show her off to everyone. She can look Pit, but then she has that sweet doofy look to her like a boxer. Awe, I'm feeling better thinking about it now.

[Jennicat]

This is my killer doggie:

http://pics.livejournal.com/kikayume/pic/000h3pkw
http://pics.livejournal.com/kikayume/pic/00076912
http://pics.livejournal.com/kikayume/pic/0007she6

Her behavior, by the way, has improved tremendously in the years that we've owned her. She had a thorn in her paw over the weekend and laid on the ground and whined while I pulled it out without offering me the slightest attempt to stop me. I think it was her newness to our house that made her so overly nervous and afraid -- it was the first time with us she'd had to face a negative input from her environment, and I think it panicked her.


By all means, I certainly wouldn't ignore your dog's if she seems to be exhibiting behavior that makes you think she's going to continue to have problems, and consulting a behaviorist is NEVER a wrong move, but it does bother me when people write off dogs as vicious or dangerous when they act in an understandable way to an unusual or scary circumstance, especially when it's due to their breed.

[CHERYL2121]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jennicat This is my killer doggie: http://pics.livejournal.com/kikayume/pic/000h3pkw http://pics.livejournal.com/kikayume/pic/00076912 http://pics.livejournal.com/kikayume/pic/0007she6 Her behavior, by the way, has improved tremendously in the years that we've owned her. She had a thorn in her paw over the weekend and laid on the ground and whined while I pulled it out without offering me the slightest attempt to stop me. I think it was her newness to our house that made her so overly nervous and afraid -- it was the first time with us she'd had to face a negative input from her environment, and I think it panicked her. By all means, I certainly wouldn't ignore your dog's if she seems to be exhibiting behavior that makes you think she's going to continue to have problems, and consulting a behaviorist is NEVER a wrong move, but it does bother me when people write off dogs as vicious or dangerous when they act in an understandable way to an unusual or scary circumstance, especially when it's due to their breed.

AWE!! The 2nd pic are they eyes Lady always gives us! It's like shes always making sure we're happy with her. And it has only been a few days, so shes still unsettled as well.

[Vanilla_Rat]

I just wanted to say to the people who said you should have her put down and that she will bite again...I am sorry,but you don't know that.Not every dog is alike.A dog that bites once out of fear,isn't nessicarily going to do it again.I do not see the point of euthanizing a healthy dog,unless there were problems that couldn't be fixed.But being a rescue dog,she will be nervous for a bit.I would say get her evaluated before making desicions like euthanizing a healthy animal.

[kathydip]

I usually agree with Bob but on this one I don't. Maybe I have watched too many episodes of Cesar Milan. I believe that with any dog -epecially powerful large breeds - you must be sure to show the dog that you are the alpha dog. You need to enforce this all the time. Cesar says that the BEST thing is to leash walk your dog -but you MUST do it the right way. The dog must be in a heel position or a step behind you. The dog should NEVER lead the walk or else he/she will think they are the dominant one - ie leader of the pack. Just teaching her to sit and making her do it each time you place food in front of her is powerful. She should know that the food comes from you. You should never let her "steal" food. I would also teach her the "drop" command. This is very important with any dog. You never know what they could grab that you don't want them to have. Of course with Frank the command is not "drop" but "wanna trade" - which is probably bad but he is only 17 pounds. I would not give up on her but I would start the training process now. When Frank was in the height of his training he was such a happy well adjusted dog. He was also confident but not dominant at all. After saying all that I have to admit I need go back to the basics with him. Luckily Belle is naturally submissive and not very threatening.
Good luck

[Jennicat]

Showing your dog who is alpha is really only going to solve dominance biting and behaviors, which are generally not falling under "fear and pain". When your dog is immediately showing submission to you after she realizes she's made a transgression, she KNOWS you're alpha.

Though I think Cesar has done a lot of good things, I also think he's made armchair behaviorists with one diagnosis, and everyone's leading the charge to every problem with "DOMINANCE!"

Then again, Cesar has a history of using somewhat questionable methods to work with dogs who don't fit into his "Dominate and rule" theory, so he doesn't seem to have read up much on fear biting and aggression.

[Vanilla_Rat]

Who is Cesar?

[sara8]

I don't see where people said to just write her off or to put her down. And I know that I said any breed of dog can have aggresion problems and included my own personal experience with my beagle. I would just be a little more worried because she is a pit because even though it isn't fair the things pits do are judged more harshly than other breeds. I am not saying that is right I am just saying that is the way it is. I am feeling pretty offended by some peoples posts if they were aimed at me because never did I say just write her off or put her to sleep. Yes I did say it would happen again because of personal experience. I hope I am totally off base and you prove me wrong and she is the best dog that ever lived. I'm pretty sure I would never say just give up because I tried with my own dog for 11 years. Not to mention I foster to try and give the unwanteds a chance at a happy home.

[Vanilla_Rat]

I just went back and re-read what you posted before.To me thats what it sounded like,that you were telling her to have the dog euthanized...but looks like I read it wrong.I am sorry,I didn't mean to upset or offend you!

[girlrazor]

From what you've said this sounds like a one off, she was only trying to say "no". Everyone's seen my thread about my fear of pitts (which I am working on), but you can't condemn a dog for an event like the one you told us about.

I would recommend seeing a behaviourist at somewhere like the ASPCA. I don't know if they charge or whatever because I don't live in America, but Battersea Dogs Home Battersea Dogs & Cats Home - Welcome have behaviour specialists that can identify any behaviour issues that dogs might have, including their ability to integrate with children & other animals etc - it's something well worth looking into

[Jennicat]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanilla_Rat Who is Cesar?

Cesar Milan is the latest popular dog trainer. He has a TV show on cable where he trains "impossible" dogs. He tends to work more with bully breeds, and it seems like most of his cases involves dogs having problems with dominance, and their hierarchy in the pack.

I think he has some very good points, like, for example, emphasizing that dogs don't just turn into well behaved dogs without training, emphasizing exercise as a key to a well-behaved dog, reiterating that dogs aren't tiny people in little furry suits and have to be treated like dogs, and making people realize that a dog with a problem isn't just a lost cause.

However, his focus on dominance has led a lot of people watching the show to seem to diagnose dominance problems in literally every movement of a dog. I saved another board I was on, where someone literally claimed that a 9 week old puppy was being dominant by gnawing on his owner's shoes, completely discounting people telling him that it was because he's a puppy, and he chews because he's a puppy!

I think a lot of people also don't realize that Milan doesn't have any formal training in dog behavior or animal psychology. He read a lot of dog training books, and then made his career based on that. I have some ideas on what books he did read, based on the methods he uses.

[CHERYL2121]

WOW as much as this thread got everyone a little fired up - you won't believe whats going on in my house right now. I came home and my husband needed to nap (he works 12am-11am) So I said ok leave her with me now that I'm home. So I proceeded to sweep and clean up the house and I have to say this feeling of insecurity in my gut won't subside!! Then I was dust busting trying to be "normal" when she growled and barked at it which was whatever - but my husband ran out of the room like are you ok?? Yeah I'm fine I said - but in my head I said you know what I'm not!!! I feel scared in my own house!! I'm sorry but it's not that shes a pit, it's that shes strong, powerful and I don't know her! So finally I told my husband I can't do it! It's not fair that he NEVER even consulted me on her! I came home to her! I feel really bad but she has to go. Then he has the nerve to say my feeling aren't warranted!!! Are you kidding me!! So we had a nice fight going on till he left for work and now I just want to scream! I can't believe how my own husband is belittling my own feelings

[Jennicat]

I'm sorry that you came to that decision. My dog also doesn't like the dustbuster or vacuum and barks and growls at both. But you do have a right to feel safe in your house.

[Leo]

I really don't think any negative comments should be left to you based on YOUR decision, you were the one who was bit, it is your life.. I can fully understand you not wanting to live your life in fear and you feeling like you couldn't ever fully trust her. (( HUGS)) I think you made the right decision.

After I posted my original response and had more time to think.. I was going to post that sending her back to the shelter would be the best thing for all involved...I know I could never fully trust a dog that bit someone just for brushing it... because if it bit you for brushing it what would happen if you did something to really make her mad, and since she bit you for brushing, who knows what makes her mad or what would trigger another attack?

I think dogs that bite really do not belong here and can not ever be fully cured from biting or should ever be trusted again, that is my opinion and I am entitled to have it.. I have it because my dad has had his life destroyed by 3 dogs that had already attacked a boy walking home from school, these dogs were ordered by a judge, to be under constant supervision, they were under supervision when my Dad (a UPS driver) walked up to their door to deliver a package not knowing his life was about to change forever... the dogs tore through the screen door trying to kill my dad (seriously they were trying to kill him), ALL HE DID WAS DELIVER A PACKAGE TO THEIR DOOR... he didn't wave his arms or do anything to the dogs, he didn't even talk to them or acknowledge their presence, he didn't even touch the door, he set the package in front of it, these dogs just attacked him unprovoked. Had the dogs just been euthanized after the first attack (which is peaceful and not painful when administered correctly) my dad would still have a great quality of life, he would still be able to work, and would actually be able to hold my children without pain and still be able to be around my dogs, because now he has post traumatic stress when it comes to dogs, he used to love dogs.

I consider dogs that bite people as mentally ill animals, a mentally sound dog does not bite people.

(note: The dogs that attacked my dad were not Pittbulls, they were Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, a breed created to hunt bear. There is a lot more to the story, PM me if you want to hear the rest, including what happened to the owner)