interesting dog show ruling - Paw Talk

dragonmaster · #1 02-28-2003, 05:29 PM

I thought this was kinda interesting. Thought there were prolly a few of you out there (at least) who would think so as well.

Appeals court refuses to stop dog clubs from docking tails
By SAMUEL MAULL
Associated Press Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - Requiring a dog to have an amputated tail to
compete successfully in a kennel club show may be discriminatory
but it is not illegal, a state appeals court ruled as it dismissed
a dog lover's lawsuit.
Jon H. Hammer, a Manhattan lawyer, sued the American Kennel Club
two years ago, trying to eliminate show standards that require some
breeds to have amputated, or "docked," tails. He called docking a
cruel violation of state law.
Hammer, owner of a Brittany spaniel with a 10-inch tail, said
docking is done without anesthesia for cosmetic reasons and has no
physical benefit for the animal. AKC standards say a Brittany's
tail should be no more than four inches long.
Breed experts said the dog was originally bred to hunt, and the
docked tail was meant to protect the appendage from injury. They
also said veterinarians now use anesthesia during the amputation.
The State Supreme Court's Appellate Division, upholding a lower
court decision by Justice Barbara Kapnick, ruled 3-2 Thursday that
the state animal cruelty law under which Hammer sued must be
enforced by law enforcement agencies.
The court said Hammer lacked "standing" - the legal right - to
sue to change the AKC's policies. Civil remedies, such as an
injunction to end a practice that possibly violates a penal law,
are usually not available to individuals, the court wrote.
The appeals court refused to state whether tail docking was in
fact a crime. The panel said Hammer was seeking "an impermissible
advisory opinion" which the court gives only if there are no
questions of fact and the sole question is one of law.
Hammer also argued that the AKC standards in effect
discriminated against dog owners who refused to mutilate their
animals. He said the standards barred his dog, a brown and white
2½-year-old named "Spooner," from meaningful competition.
The court dismissed that part of Hammer's complaint, saying,
"The right to compete ... in dog shows is not a legally protected
right. In any event, a Brittany Spaniel with an undocked tail is,
in fact, permitted to compete;... he simply loses points for the
dog's tail length."
"Dog tail length, like dog height, is not a consideration
protected by state of federal anti-discrimination law," the
panel's majority wrote.
Neither Hammer nor his lawyer, Joseph P. Foley, replies to calls
seeking comment.

Chrisanne · #2 02-28-2003, 07:57 PM

go figure ... I am not surprised.

I applaud this person for trying though.

dragonmaster · #3 03-01-2003, 05:55 PM

yea, i think it was worth a shot, and i think that the reasons for the ruling were interesting as well...

#4 03-01-2003, 06:08 PM

shame it was shot down.

A lot of people out there think that tying a rubber band or a tight string can get their dog a docked tail without spending the money on the vet procedure. Truely sad.

***Dena*** · #5 03-01-2003, 06:56 PM

It comes down to the AKC having a LOT of MONEY AND POWER. Lets keep in mind who most of these people who own and judge the dogs are. Old rich crusty people with a lot of political influence who don't want to change their ways because it may affect their lives oh so much

PokeyPokey · #6 03-01-2003, 06:57 PM

Is it true that like half of the dogs registered under AKC aren't purebreds? I thought I heard something about it...

Crittercall · #7 03-01-2003, 08:39 PM

Amen to Dena and Erin. I've had more than one breeder tell me that they absolutely would not go to the Westminister show because it is the most political one of the bunch. It's who you know, not what your dog looks like.

Erin, I've seen puppies come in with fishing line tied around their tails to try to "dock" them. Sickening. Kind of like when you see a pitbull come in that the people want the ears cut really short that you know they are going to use that dog in fights.

In my experience, tail docking and dewclaw removal were both done without anesthetic. Normally done before the dog reaches 5 days, which is much too young to put it under. The ears are done when the puppy is at least 9 weeks so that they can be put under - and once you see and hear a dog wake up from that surgery you'll put it on your list of things you would never put a dog through.

Are all AKC dogs purebred? Not necessarily. Ideally the owners watch the breeding take place so that they can verify that two AKC dogs were together to produce puppies. But dogs (and cats) can produce off-spring from more than one father. And it depends on just how ethical the breeders are.

PokeyPokey · #8 03-01-2003, 08:45 PM

Oh I could not stand having to be the vet that has to declaw cats, cut ears, or dock tails. I'd have to have a sign out "I do not do cruelty to animals" I think it is sooo inhumane. They feel something it is not painless!!! Declawing a cat takes away their defense and I think it makes the cat mean. They can't protect themselves with nails so they do it with teeth and so on. My cocker has a docked tail and they did it poorly. I kept saying to myself I will breed dogs and never dock their tails. They will be the best show dogs.

And cutting their ears! It's plain horrible!!! I could never do that to the poor animal.

I didn't know they cut pit bulls ears really small for dog fighting. That is really sad. Killing odgs for their own enjoyment and gambbling addictions. Ugh!

#9 03-01-2003, 08:52 PM

aren't shepherds and other dogs with ears that stand up made to do that through surgery? We had a husky/sheperd mix, he had the floppiest, velvet soft ears.

I don't thinkdeclaw makes a cat mean, we've got three of the sweetest declawed cats in the world. Of course I'd never put another cat through the procedure again after learning about it though!

Crittercall · #10 03-01-2003, 09:08 PM

A Shepherd w/a good blood line has ears that will stand up with no outside assistance, sort of like a dobie w/a bad blood line has ears that won't stand up after surgery no matter what you do!

Some dogs (Westies comes to mind) don't have anything done - it is just in the breed that the ears stand. Kind of like labs, cockers, bassetts, have floppy ears by nature.

SharonM · #11 03-01-2003, 09:31 PM

I work at a pet shop where we breed our own puppies, and my bosses "assistant" does all the dewclaws and tail docks, egads - it is HORRIBLE. We had a boxer pup one time I thought sure would bleed to death. Did you know that almost all boxer pups are born with a white tip on their tail ? So cute, and no one gets to see.
My best friend has a beautiful doberman pup, and they chose not to do her ears. Her registered name is "floppy ears" in German (no idea how to even say it, let alone spell it) I think they made the right decision. She read that in Germany, it's illegal to crop ears, so people were having it done in another country - Belgium? - so now, Dobes with cropped ears aren't allowed in competitions in Germany. How sad that they have to go to such extremes to stop such a "cruel and unusual" practice.

***Dena*** · #12 03-01-2003, 10:11 PM

Pit bulls ears were originally docked due to fighting, they would probably just get ripped off in a fight anyway. Many people that do not fight their dogs will still have them docked anyway.

The ironic thing is that if you go to a pit bull show they do not require the ears to be docked for confirmation. And believe me there are many people there involved with fighting their dogs and you would be suprised at the different types of people that fight them.

Chrisanne · #13 03-01-2003, 11:10 PM

I want a Great Dane and I will NOT crop its ears, nor will I buy from a breeder that does it before the sale (and gives the buyer no choice). Natural is beautiful. IMO

BrendaLynn · #14 03-27-2003, 08:03 AM

I agree that ear cropping seems very unnecessary and the animal who is a pet doesn't need it. I think the oringinal purpose of the dogs who have that done isn't the purpose any longer.
We had a boxer and he was so beautiful with his ears left intact. IMO I think that tail docking is done at such an early age that that and dew claw removal are not really an issue. Human children are circumisized at a few days old and I've never met ANY human male that has had that done that has suffered greatly. I have heard of men who haven't been circumcized only to have to go through the prcedure as adults due to severe infections and it is torturously painful. My three sons have never even brought it up.
So when human aspects are put on animals I have to think that the infant animals have no long term mental anguish either.
So the ruling seems reasonable again it's just my oppinion though.

patnjackmom · #15 04-08-2003, 12:34 AM

All mutilations that are done on dogs for cosmetic reason is horrifying. I can not understand the AKC see it is necessary. Uncropped dogs are estecically prettier in my eyes.