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13K views 21 replies 5 participants last post by  mulder 
#1 ·
Hi guys. I have 2 spiny mice (sisters) and need advice. I've had them for a year and a half. They're sweet. curious, act like they looove me. THEN i think i can touch them....NOT. Here's the history:
- pet store is having closing sale, i buy all three spiny mice (adults sisters big momma and stella, big momma had a tiny tiny baby) because i KNOW most people hate to buy adults because they're "not cute enough"
-everythings fine, sales lady gives me food, hay, everything i need, plus i buy a book on them because i didn't trust her (now i know why)
-i read the book, ok cool, i know the history of the critters. i let the three settle into their cage for an hour or two before i formally intoduce myself
-everythings fine, they're curious as always, sweet things, and baby loves walking onto my hand and saying hi.
-2 days later, while baby is in my hand, she starts moving less and less, i keep her in my hand thinking she's cold. my and my man watch a tv show while i keep an eye on her. then poof, she dies in my hand 30 mins later!!!!!!!!!!!!
-so i POUND the net trying to figure out what the heck happened. well....i used my leftover shavings from my mouse, it's a pine/cedar blend, and the net says cedar will kill their respiratory tracts!!!!!
-SO, i take the (dead) baby back to the store (i'm in tears, i'd never mean to hurt anything) and they give me my money back (not that i care) then i rip into the sales girl because NO ONE told me cedar would kill them, no "pine bedding only" NOTHING!!!
-ever since the day that baby died, both momma and stella HATE me

Now, yes i know animals are smart and i know they KNOW i killed their baby, they don't care if i feel bad. it's been a year and a half and i still can't put my hand in the cage, they want to eat meat, or i'm clearly unwelcome. they do not test nibble, every bite is very intentional, every bite breaks my skin and draws blood and HURTS. i give them treats all the time, they'll just bite me if i don't give it to them. i've tried everything. when i clean their aquarium (it's BIG) i don't take them out, they run around and explore and play with the brush i use to sweep up the shavings, they're hilarious, BUT no one can touch them. they bite everyone, anytime. i wear a rubber dish glove...they bite me this morning right through it. i give up. i don't know what else to do! i won't give up on them, i'll keep them until heaven takes them, but NO WAY do i try handling them, they're definitley not interested. does anyone have any advice? i don't want to give them away because they're NOT cuddly pets, they're for watching. and believe me they're fun to watch. GAH! anyone have ideas????? HELP!!
 
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#2 ·
Well first thing I can tell you is both pine AND cedar are toxic. Use aspen if you're worried about bedding cost.

Spiny mice are extremely social animals... both the mother and father care for the babies, as well as aunts, uncles, etc.

What book did you get on spiny care? As far as I knew, there wasn't a book out there except in another language.

Have you tried bonding with them? Spiny mice are insectivores in the wild and require a higher protein diet than regular mice do. Try offering them some mealworms by hand while gently talking to them. All I can say is to continue handling them, get a bonding pouch, etc. They're wild animals, not domestic.

Also, I hope you realize that they cannot eat that many seeds or fruit. They will get fat, and that can lead to diabetes in spiny mice. I offer mine rat lab blocks with cat food, as well as crickets or mealworms.
 
#3 ·
What I did with my spiny mouse (I know they like having buddies...I'm getting a second one) was sit in a bathtub and let her run around. At first she would avoid me but eventually she became curious and started to climb onto me and play in my hoodie. She's still not into petting or anything but definately enjoys being with me.

Treats help too but they have to be really awesome ones :lol:. Mealworms, scrambled eggs, and chicken seem to be big hits.

This a great website for spiny mouse care: http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/spiny/care.html
 
#4 ·
BOTH cedar and pine are toxic to small animals.They contain phenols which are not good at all.

I have never had spiny mice (want some in the future),so I cannot offer much advice.But both Stephanie and "Dragontamer" had some good points.
 
#5 ·
Oh thank you so much! I've never been able to find any help. I had no idea pine was bad too! they've been okay so far? i'll change it no question, i'm not concerned about bedding cost. i keep their diet seed and fruit free, but i didn' tknow they needed extra protein, so i'll take care of that asap. i love the bath tub idea. they're far from timid, i talk to them every day all the time, they're in a high traffic area, they see us constantly. they're certainly not shy. they crawl up on things and look and act like they really really care (like dogs). i just get bitten when in their vicinity. when i change their water i can't let my hand linger in the cage or CHOMP. i'll go find out what that pouch thing is and get one. i have yogurt treats (is that okay??) that i give them and they love and look forward to them. i give them one when i clean their cage too. they have fun when i clean their cage, the run around checkign evrything out, they run up the dustpan and up my arm (got forbid i have a tshirt on) then run back in. it's like they really want to figure me out. i guess i'm just confused because they used to be fine, i'm afraid i mentally scarred them when the baby died. but again, i loooove them, i'll keep at it. tomorrow i'm cleaning teh cage because today i spent all day cleaning and putting new stuff in my degu cage. i'll let everyone know how tomorrow goes. i swear every day i try once, oening the cage door, putting my hand in to let them smell me, now i'm just nervous, i feel like a seamstress with no thimble. thank you all so much again!!
 
#6 · (Edited)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_kkhBQ2Vos

There's a video of two of my spiny mice. Lucy's extremely affectionate while Napalm is a bit skiddish (especially around Lucy).

Lucy's a satin agouti and Napalm's a cream standard, both are egyptian spiny mice.

The video sort of shows how they can be.. one's not used to being handled while the other one's been held since she was born, and now she's 2 years 1 month old.
 
#7 ·
DragonTamer said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_kkhBQ2Vos

There's a video of two of my spiny mice. Lucy's extremely affectionate while Napalm is a bit skiddish (especially around Lucy).

Lucy's a satin agouti and Napalm's a cream standard, both are egyptian spiny mice.

The video sort of shows how they can be.. one's not used to being handled while the other one's been held since she was born, and now she's 2 years 1 month old.
Cute video!

Where did you get a satin spiny mouse? I've been wanting one of those badly and am in New York too :). I'm considering breeding as a hobby. Most likely I wouldn't sell them or anything :lol:.
 
#8 ·
Sasami said:
Cute video!

Where did you get a satin spiny mouse? I've been wanting one of those badly and am in New York too :). I'm considering breeding as a hobby. Most likely I wouldn't sell them or anything :lol:.
Something like me with my rats...when I breed a litter,I keep most of my babies!:D
 
#9 ·
Well, it's really only until I get my USDA license and settle down in a permanent residence (not really in that order). As it's illegal to sell them without a license.

They're great.. but I will say with having 1-2 litters per year, I have about 20-30 spiny mice at any given time, from different families so they DON'T all get along with each other. Currently with the loss of one of my boys I'm down to 19 spinies..

Satin.. well, let's just say I only know three of us with them, although I DO know there's more out there I just haven't seen or spoken to anyone else who does. The original breeder of them is in NY state, but I don't know who or where. I had got my first two by chance at a crap little pet store, 6 or so years ago, without even knowing they were satin until I acquired some creams a few years later from a breeder. It was really all by chance, and this place was selling them for 99 cents each. I went back and offered $30 per spiny, but they were gone by then.

Currently I have three who are satin, with a few carriers, and five who are cream, with a few carriers as well. Have yet to succeed in getting a cream satin, but when you only get 1-3 babies in a litter, it's all by luck.
 
#10 ·
DragonTamer said:
Well, it's really only until I get my USDA license and settle down in a permanent residence (not really in that order). As it's illegal to sell them without a license.

They're great.. but I will say with having 1-2 litters per year, I have about 20-30 spiny mice at any given time, from different families so they DON'T all get along with each other. Currently with the loss of one of my boys I'm down to 19 spinies..

Satin.. well, let's just say I only know three of us with them, although I DO know there's more out there I just haven't seen or spoken to anyone else who does. The original breeder of them is in NY state, but I don't know who or where. I had got my first two by chance at a crap little pet store, 6 or so years ago, without even knowing they were satin until I acquired some creams a few years later from a breeder. It was really all by chance, and this place was selling them for 99 cents each. I went back and offered $30 per spiny, but they were gone by then.

Currently I have three who are satin, with a few carriers, and five who are cream, with a few carriers as well. Have yet to succeed in getting a cream satin, but when you only get 1-3 babies in a litter, it's all by luck.
Too bad...I really want a satin. I haven't even found any creams here but I think I might be able to get our exotics petstore to order some for me.

How do you go about introducing a pair of spiny mice to each other? Let's say you have a male and female who have never met and would like to breed them...do you do split-cage method or something? I'm just curious how you do it :). Also, do you feel that having a breeding pair together at all times would be too stressful on the female? Since they don't breed that often I wouldn't think so.
 
#11 ·
yeah I split-tank intro with spiny mice, pretty much all the time. Also introduce them on neutral territory.

The problem with putting the two together and letting them continuously breed, is that you CAN get overwhelmed rather fast. People say that they only breed during certain times of the year but I've found this to NOT be true. I've had them breed at all times of the year. back to back breedings would be rather stressful to the mom, too.. especially considering how LARGE the babies are when they're born! It's not common, but females can prolapse a uterus. Thankfully it's never happened to me but I've known people it has happened to, and the female always dies...


the guy I got my cream line from imported them from the UK, so I'm not sure how common they are here in the US. I'm still in a search for albinos and melanistic individuals (black). I've seen a picture of a black eyed white spiny mouse ONCE in my life, and she was a stunning creature.
 
#12 ·
DragonTamer said:
yeah I split-tank intro with spiny mice, pretty much all the time. Also introduce them on neutral territory.

The problem with putting the two together and letting them continuously breed, is that you CAN get overwhelmed rather fast. People say that they only breed during certain times of the year but I've found this to NOT be true. I've had them breed at all times of the year. back to back breedings would be rather stressful to the mom, too.. especially considering how LARGE the babies are when they're born! It's not common, but females can prolapse a uterus. Thankfully it's never happened to me but I've known people it has happened to, and the female always dies...


the guy I got my cream line from imported them from the UK, so I'm not sure how common they are here in the US. I'm still in a search for albinos and melanistic individuals (black). I've seen a picture of a black eyed white spiny mouse ONCE in my life, and she was a stunning creature.
So do you seperate the breeding pairs most of the time? Because it seems like constantly seperating them and introducing them again would be stressful too.
 
#13 ·
Er... I don't allow a female spiny to have more than 2 litters in her entire life. ever. also after 2 years of age, she's permanently retired whether she had been bred or not (spinies live to be about 4-5 years).

The father will help raise the young, but so will the aunts, sisters, grandmothers, etc. After a breeding, I always put the pregnant spiny in with her original cagemates and let the other girls help her raise the baby(ies). Trying to put a new baby in with the older cagemates and the mom may result in fighting and even death of the baby, but if it's born with the others in the same cage, they treat the baby as family.
 
#14 ·
Maybe You Could Find Some Spiny "babies" For Them To Adopt, And You Could Offer Them As A Peace Offering, Maybe The Sisters Would Forgive You After All This Time.
Or Maybe Find Them Each A Male And Let Them Have Their Own Families So They Could Have The Baby They Always Wanted. Crap I Don't Know, I'm Just Trying To Help
 
#15 ·
*sigh* ok, sorry it took me so long to get back here, I haven't been feeling great. So, Dragontamer, both my girls are like your Napalm, quick little buggers that bite my fingers when the come up to them. They're both constantly interested, like where your Napalm (referring to your video clip) was skittering around, mine will run around too,but WON'T leave my hands alone, and I'm hesitant sure, i know the chomp is coming, but i always wait, and it always comes, and $&#@ it hurts. Do you think they're just doing it now to make me go away? because if i do anything to notify them of my presence near their cage, they act really really interested, stand with their front paws on the sides of the tank, like they're waiting for me to go in and say hi. It's soooo cute, i'm always lured in, then chomp again. gah. i can tell they're figuring things out, but my fingies won't last!
 
#16 ·
Well. Yesterday I cleaned the girls' tank. First I just took the top off and talked to them and had my hand in there just sitting, so they could get used to it being around. I have treats for them, i cut a few into tiny pieces so i had more to use without making them sick. I got a lot of bites, a looooooot. One per finger, three per hand were gooood bleeders lol. I slowly started lifting things out of the tank (i was going to clean it) while still giving them treats a good once a minute (really tiny pieces) since they're scurrying around trying to figure things out. They took a treat, ran away and put it somewhere, then came right back and bit me, then ran back to eat the treat. Like...!?!?!?!?!? lol. They hid in their wicker holey tube thing, so I lifted them and it, out of the tank and put them in the bathroom (super easy play-pen i use for the goo's too) with water and a box to hide in. I cleaned their cage, then got back to business. Oh, i had to have a few cigarette breaks inbetween, my fingers HURT (still). So I take my bowl of treat bits and sit in the bathroom (I wore heavy socks so they couldn't bite my toes, good forethought I noticed). Big momma was a little bit more easygoing, she gradually bit me less often. However, Stella just ran around, she became less interested in treats and me. Big momma didn't become friendlier, just more full i think lol. She put her front paws on my leg at one point, looking up on my lap, but she was NOT interested, she ran back in the box. I was really upset afterwards when i put them back in their tank. I really feel like I just terrorized them. Their chests were heaving, they were scurrying left and right like degus. I feel horrible. I feel abusive. I want them to have a good home with a good owner. Having all the bites just sent my adrenalin through the roof, and with my anxietey, i just almost fainted a few times, but i was sitting on the floor already so i held on. I sat in the bathroom with them for like, an hour. And I really just feel like some mean person, but I love them so much. I suppose if anyone in Ottawa would like to try to work with them, I'd be more than happy to give them. But I KNOW I'm a good owner, I refuse to give them away unless i'm positive they'll be spoiled. I'm protective!! Grrr i'm not saying what i'm trying to. Take 2.... I'm not in the market for giving them away. However, should an exceptionally suitable candidate arise, my girls deserve the best, wherever the best may be. That's better.
 
#17 ·
Can you maybe use a container to get them out of the tank? And then once they're out let them climb on you and pet them and give them treats? That's what I did when I first got Isis since she was a bit nervous.
 
#20 ·
Bit again. Ouch! How about this...Anyone live in Ottawa and want two timid spiny mice. I feel like i'm just scaring them. Plus all the bites make my anietey hit the roof. I get so worked up, I almost passed out the other day. *sigh*
 
#21 ·
:( I've never heard of spiny mice being so aggressive...have you checked them out for medical problems or anything? That's just crazy...

I have a feeling if you rehomed them they would end up getting shuffled between homes because of their biting. I would probably take them if I wasn't so far away...:(.

Maybe you could just let them do their own thing? I know it's hard to just give up but maybe it's better if you do :(.

I'm sorry, I just don't have any other ideas :hugg2:.
 
#22 ·
Yeah. I try and try, i've changed foods, noting changes. i do just let them do their on thing, i make sure they have everything they need. i just can't handle the biting every day. i let them be and they're great and cute and social, just not into skin. it's like every bite is on purpose and hardhard. every bite draws blood. *sigh* they're okay doing their own thing. i knoe they're safe here at least.
 
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