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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 03:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Urine crystals

My mom's cat (the one I was asking about food for) has crystals in his bladder and he sometimes has blood in his urine Her vet is trying all kinds of diet changes/ natural remedies to get rid of them but they are not working. It's getting to where sometimes he misses the catbox and they'll find spots around the house Do you guys know of any other treatments or medications? I was under the impression that they could surgically remove them but my mom said they can't. I don't know if the vet is just wanting to do things his own way or what but the poor cat needs a quick fix. He's a VERY picky eater and is not doing well with the food changes.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 08:40 AM
 
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When my Mom's cat had crystals in him, he had it so bad they kept him over night for 3 days and I think they had a catheter in him to drain them, ever since the food change he has been fine. I am not sure what they did exactly while he was there. Sorry!
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 12:22 PM
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They can remove current crystals with surgery, but they often recur. I don't have any info on hand but look up Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) on google and you should find some useful info.

Stephanie

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 12:34 PM
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I wish I had some advice - but, I've only heard what Jade said. My friend had her kitty put down because of the same problem ... his was so severe he needed surgery again two days after his catheter was taken out from his second surgery. Their vet said he doubted he could hold up a 3rd time, and even if he did they'd have to replace his "plumbing" and that was risky in itself. He started with the "crystals" and after each surgery, it got worse, until he had large stones.
I wonder if your mom's cat would have less accidents if he had more cat pans - or even some peepee pads in different spots ??

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 01:29 PM
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I have helped vets with many of these surgeries, and they do occur fairly often, so yes, surgery can be done and if catherization is not working then it must be done. A diet change as well as surgery is most often the best way to go in my opinion. If the cat is not urinating and he has a blockage and does not get into surgery soon, he will die. Please tell your mother to get him to another vet who is experienced with this. It's a major emergency in felines. Not being able to urinate means the kidneys can not filter out toxins, and the cat quickly dehydrates. Most likely they will also give him fluids.

In severe cases where catherization does not help and the cat still has problems they can do a perineal urethrostomy. I have only seen two of these done but both cats did fantastic.
 
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SharonM
I wish I had some advice - but, I've only heard what Jade said. My friend had her kitty put down because of the same problem ... his was so severe he needed surgery again two days after his catheter was taken out from his second surgery. Their vet said he doubted he could hold up a 3rd time, and even if he did they'd have to replace his "plumbing" and that was risky in itself. He started with the "crystals" and after each surgery, it got worse, until he had large stones.
I wonder if your mom's cat would have less accidents if he had more cat pans - or even some peepee pads in different spots ??
Very sad. I've seen several cats euthanized because of this. One cat we tried for about two hours to put a catheter in but we couldn't. The vet really felt we wouldn't be able to get in, so the owner chose to euthanize the cat and avoid surgery as she didn't have the funds to pay for it. About two minutes after we euthanized the poor thing, we were able to put in the catheter. So please if anyone goes through this, don't give up, even if it takes a long time to get it in, try and try again. We could have saved this cats life and it was very unfortunate.

In your friends case I would have opted for the perineal urethrostomy. Although risky, most cats do fairly well with this procedure. It can be very painful and there is a risk of blood loss, but the two cats I helped work on did absolutely wonderful. If you can afford the surgery I would always give it a try. Just make sure you have a competent vet who knows what he's doing.

It's just a very hard thing to go through. Seeing all the cats at the clinic in pain is just horrible.
 
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you very much guys! I didn't know it was so serious and I don't think my mom understands either! I'll pass all of this along to her!
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 05:05 PM
 
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The first step is to determine what type of crystals are present. Did the vet do this? If not, any treatment that is attempted is going to be hit or miss. The reason being, certain types of crystals are treated with certain types of foods and giving something contrary can actually make things worse. An ultrasound is a good indicator of how severe the problem is. What type of foods has the vet tried? My female is on Medical Dissolution right now to dissolve her struvite stones. It is working well so far. I am definitely willing to help in any way that I can...please let us know everything that has been done up to this point. As mentioned above, this can become very serious if not treated effectively and efficiently. If you would like to read Syd's story, it is on my forum here.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 10:25 PM
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Either way, if the cat has already started treatment which it seems like the cat has and it's not working, and the cat is plugged and even catherization won't work, the cat will have to have surgery, period. If not, the cat will die. I am replying to the one who graded me low. I have many years of experience working in vet clinics and have helped many vets perform these surgeries. I have also had a few cats with stones of both types. Sometimes diet and medication helped, and sometimes not and surgery was needed.

I would imagine the veterinarian did determine which type of stones were present before starting treatment, because if not, than what Candycane says is correct. If the vet did not do this I would suggest going to another veterinarian.
 
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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I don't know myself, I'll have to ask my mom and see if she was told. Thanks for all the advice everyone! I'll keep you guys updated.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 09:59 AM
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I have also seen several surgeries making a male cat a female, so to speak. There are also many cat foods out there now, not prescription, regular super market food, to help prevent urinary crystals. We used to see this a lot, but now with these new foods, we've only done these surgeries 2 times in the past year. Both cats are doing fine now.

I found this:

In the extreme situation that urinary blockage becomes recurrent in a male cat, a perineal urethrostomy (PU) may be considered. This involves surgical reconstruction of the genitalia to create a more female-like opening, one that is much more difficult to obstruct. However, this surgery merely prevents obstruction of the urinary tract, it does not prevent FLUTD. The cat is likely to continue to experience recurring bloody urine, straining and other symptoms, only the life-threatening occurrence of a complete blockage is eliminated. Side effects of surgery can include bleeding for up to ten days after surgery, narrowing at the surgical site, urinary incontinence and a greater incidence of other kinds of bladder diseases. Cats with perineal urethrostomies are predisposed to bladder infections and infection related bladder stones. For these reasons, perineal urethrostomy is usually considered to be a last resort. (Cornell University http). The University of Minnesota currently recommends that male cats with PU have regular periodic urine cultures even if they are asymptomatic.



Here is the direct link, where I got the above information from.
http://ms.yuba.cc.ca.us/vet01/vett53...orts/final.htm

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Boo
I have also seen several surgeries making a male cat a female, so to speak. There are also many cat foods out there now, not prescription, regular super market food, to help prevent urinary crystals. We used to see this a lot, but now with these new foods, we've only done these surgeries 2 times in the past year. Both cats are doing fine now.

I found this:

In the extreme situation that urinary blockage becomes recurrent in a male cat, a perineal urethrostomy (PU) may be considered. This involves surgical reconstruction of the genitalia to create a more female-like opening, one that is much more difficult to obstruct. However, this surgery merely prevents obstruction of the urinary tract, it does not prevent FLUTD. The cat is likely to continue to experience recurring bloody urine, straining and other symptoms, only the life-threatening occurrence of a complete blockage is eliminated. Side effects of surgery can include bleeding for up to ten days after surgery, narrowing at the surgical site, urinary incontinence and a greater incidence of other kinds of bladder diseases. Cats with perineal urethrostomies are predisposed to bladder infections and infection related bladder stones. For these reasons, perineal urethrostomy is usually considered to be a last resort. (Cornell University http). The University of Minnesota currently recommends that male cats with PU have regular periodic urine cultures even if they are asymptomatic.



Here is the direct link, where I got the above information from.
http://ms.yuba.cc.ca.us/vet01/vett53...orts/final.htm
That's correct. Like I mentioned in my post it's very painful and there is a chance of great blood loss etc. I want to make it clear that this is nothing to waste time with. It sounded like the cat had started treatment. This may not be the surgery for him, but the point I was trying to make is that the cat can have surgery to remove the stones, which her mother said they cannot. We do this reguarly, and yes a perineal urethrostomy is deffinately a last resort. But if the cat is blocked and the vet doesn't want to treat him appropriately the point is it's not healthy for the cat and is going to put a tremendous strain on the animal, most likely filling him with toxins and causing him to die. We all know that if our bladder reptured it's a life or death situation, the same goes for cats. The cat needs to be treated right away. It doesn't sound like the vet after rereading the thread is going about treating this cat the right way.

This surgery is only for males who keep getting obstructed. Like you mentioned it does nothing to keep urinary infections at bay, but can help keep the cat from becoming plugged and slowly killing himself.

I didn't mean to sound that this was the surgery he needed if that's what it sounded like. The cat could do well with just having the stones removed and then treated with meds and a new diet. This is diffinately the last option in my opinion, but one worth looking into if someone is having problems with their cat. Now let me repeat what I said earlier:
"I have helped vets with many of these surgeries, and they do occur fairly often, so yes, surgery can be done and if catherization is not working then it must be done. A diet change as well as surgery is most often the best way to go in my opinion. If the cat is not urinating and he has a blockage and does not get into surgery soon, he will die. Please tell your mother to get him to another vet who is experienced with this. It's a major emergency in felines. Not being able to urinate means the kidneys can not filter out toxins, and the cat quickly dehydrates. Most likely they will also give him fluids.

In severe cases where catherization does not help and the cat still has problems they can do a perineal urethrostomy. I have only seen two of these done but both cats did fantastic."

Again, I mentioned surgery but left the perineal urethrostomy as a last resort for severe cases. Either way the cat will have to have surgery to remove the stones if the currently treatment is not working and catherization is not helping. If he can't urinate that's extremely painful and very hard on the body, causing severe stress.

Either way, Becki I really hope your mothers cat gets well soon! I didn't mean to take over your thread, just wanted to let you know to get the cat treated as soon as possible. Now that I reread your first post it seems like the vet has tried only a homeopathic approach? Either way let your mother know that those of us here at Paw Talk are praying for a nice speedy recovery for her sweet feline.

Again, sorry if it sounded like I was offering the extreme surgery first, but that was not the case.
 
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 02:54 PM
 
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When Syd was diagnosed with stones, my immediate thought was to have them removed. There was a misunderstanding and we thought they were oxalate stones and thus, very difficult to dissolve with a diet. Instead, she has struvite stones and so far, we've had great success with the dissolution formula vet food. She will be going in this month for another ultrasound to see exactly how much progress we have made.

Since you will be talking to your mom, I am going to give you a ton of questions to ask.

What is he eating now?
What has the vet tried for treatment (type, duration, result, etc.)?
When was the last urinalysis done?
What was found in the last urinalysis (pH and crystal type are most important)?

Just quickly, the two most common types of crystals and struvite and calcium oxalate. Struvite form when the urine pH is too high (basic) and oxalate form when the pH is too low (acidic). This is why urinary tract foods are not recommended to the general population (even though many large companies produce and promote them) because they may cause oxalate crystals. Oxalate crystals used to be very uncommon but now with all these urinary tract foods (to prevent struvite crystals), they are becoming increasing more common. THIS is why the vet MUST know what type of crystals are forming. Also, keep in mind that any dietary change is going to require at least 10 weeks to dissolve stones. The reason I mention stones is because to me (not a vet), it sounds like bladder stones. IMHO, the next step would be a urinalysis and an ultrasound of the bladder and kidneys.

I think that's all for now...I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 03:12 PM
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IMHO, the next step would be a urinalysis and an ultrasound of the bladder and kidneys.
From reading her post it sounds like this was already done? Gee, I hope so if treatment was already started. They also changed his food, so it does seem like the cat was already diagnosed with stones. Without a urinalysis how did they know he had stones? Blood in the urine can also signal a cyst or tumour, so I am hoping the vet did go ahead with this before treating the cat.
 
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 04:38 PM
 
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Romping Ratties, you'd be surprised at how quick some vets are to treat before finding a real cause. If you read Syd's story, you will see how many vets I went through before Syd was finally diagnosed. Most of them didn't do a urinalysis even. I wish I had known then what I know now...hindsight is 20/20 though. The vets that I saw assumed a urinary tract infection and put her on round after round of antibiotics.
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