I am allergic to maths
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Earth
Age: 23
Posts: 1,318
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Originally Posted by Jennicat
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We've kind of gone through this with her. Her friend that she assured us was her mentor and ok with what she was doing came to the board and said that she was uncomfortable with Diamond's standard of care and that her animals weren't getting vet care.
Diamond said that was a lie and told us to call the SPCA and get proof. She even gave the number. Someone called and the person that answered had no idea who she was. Then Diamond told us we talked to the wrong people.
Her stories kind of seem to go like that. She's had so many now -- first her vet gave her free care. Then someone pointed out that she said she couldn't afford a spay for her cat, and she said that her vet gave her discounted care. Then for some reason, the story changed to the fact that her vet was very expensive.
She still hasn't shown any pictures of her animals in adequate cages since her first pictures of the rats in those horribly tiny cages. Her mice in another thread were giving birth in CRITTER KEEPERS (dear god). I highly doubt that her guinea pigs are getting the recommended 7.5 square feet per pair.
Diamond said that was a lie and told us to call the SPCA and get proof. She even gave the number. Someone called and the person that answered had no idea who she was. Then Diamond told us we talked to the wrong people.
Her stories kind of seem to go like that. She's had so many now -- first her vet gave her free care. Then someone pointed out that she said she couldn't afford a spay for her cat, and she said that her vet gave her discounted care. Then for some reason, the story changed to the fact that her vet was very expensive.
She still hasn't shown any pictures of her animals in adequate cages since her first pictures of the rats in those horribly tiny cages. Her mice in another thread were giving birth in CRITTER KEEPERS (dear god). I highly doubt that her guinea pigs are getting the recommended 7.5 square feet per pair.
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is a little "special"
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern-ish Minnesota
Age: 24
Posts: 4,131
Ive been reading through this, and its pretty ridiculous. Diamond, if you would stop being SO overly defensive, and just talk instead of name calling and accusing people of being "Lonely house wives" or what ever.
I mean really... If you were a responsible breeder, no one would be attacking you. I can think of several members who breed animals, including Kayla who breeds her cresties, who dont get attacked. So its not that we gang up on every single breeder, which is what you seem to be assuming- Just the irresponsible ones.
If you want every one to leave you alone about your breeding, how about you show us pictures of your current set ups? Since you seem to be so confident in your care and breeding, it shouldnt be an issue. Just because you keep track of your animals parents doesnt mean they are well cared for, and I think every one just wants to make sure you ARE indeed taking proper car eof them.
Having been the owner of 3 shelter piggies, I dont support breeding them, and even if you dont have any shelter guinea pigs in your area, it doesnt mean that there arent thousands in need of a home.
And BTW, I would suggesting finding a better way to handle them. Your going to break their little backs....
I mean really... If you were a responsible breeder, no one would be attacking you. I can think of several members who breed animals, including Kayla who breeds her cresties, who dont get attacked. So its not that we gang up on every single breeder, which is what you seem to be assuming- Just the irresponsible ones.
If you want every one to leave you alone about your breeding, how about you show us pictures of your current set ups? Since you seem to be so confident in your care and breeding, it shouldnt be an issue. Just because you keep track of your animals parents doesnt mean they are well cared for, and I think every one just wants to make sure you ARE indeed taking proper car eof them.
Having been the owner of 3 shelter piggies, I dont support breeding them, and even if you dont have any shelter guinea pigs in your area, it doesnt mean that there arent thousands in need of a home.
And BTW, I would suggesting finding a better way to handle them. Your going to break their little backs....
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"For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear.They are not brethen, they are not underlings; they are other nations caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth."
Rodentologist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodentzRule
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That is just unbelievable! I cant bring myself to read so many of her threads anymore, she is just a disgrace. Im not going to be nice about it anymore, she is just causing many of us so much frustration and anger. Diamond, I am actually starting to believe you are a hoarder. There is absolutley no way any of your animals are in good condition.
All of our rescue pigs are in C&C cages. All of our rabbits are in pens that are 16 square feet. The chinchilla has a huge quality cage to himself. The hamsters are all in 20 gallon long aquariums (or spatial equivalent in cages). The rats are 6 per ferret nation, with two males that haven't been able to pair up with anybody very well living next door to each other in "pet store" cages that are rated to hold 3 rats each.
The guinea pigs eat Cavy Cuisine, get oxbow hay, and get daily veggies. Same for the bunnies (only with bunny pellets). The rats get a block base with Suebee's and fresh supplements every day. The hamsters are getting Healthy Handfuls supplemented with Suebees. The pigeon is getting Harrison's. The chilla is getting Chinchilla Deluxe with plenty of hay and alfalfa. Ad nauseum.
It's something that takes dedication to do. If I put all the guinea pigs in pet store cages and all the rats in hamster cages, etc, I could probably "save" 50 rats and 30 guinea pigs and 25 rabbits, etc. But what kind of life is that for an animal to lead, and what kind of example am I setting for the people adopting from us? "Do as I say, and not as I do?" If I don't treat my animals as important individuals that have specific needs and deserve an optimum environment how can I tell other people to do that?
We are as gods to the beasts of the fields. We order the time o' their birth and the time o' their death. Between times, we ha' a duty. - Terry Pratchett.
"Men have forgotten this truth", said the fox, "But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed. - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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Paw-Talk Golden Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Age: 33
Posts: 2,436
Diamond, you need help. Really, I think you should seek therapy. Before you get defensive, I have told a lot of people on this forum that they should talk to a counselor regarding various issues. It doesn't mean that I think you're crazy or bad or anything so just don't even go there.
You are clearly not stupid. Behind all the spelling mistakes in your posts you generally display the ability convey coherent thoughts. However, I think that you have a problem. You have too many animals and it's too much for one person. They are not getting the care that they need and we have seen photographic evidence of this, along with things you have said. You may try to argue that we misinterpreted your words but you cannot argue against those pictures.
Here is some information about hoarding from Tufts University for everyone to read:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/
It provides a definition of hoarding including
Also from http://www.animalhoarding.com/How-An...-Develops.html
You can see that this type of behavior comes from deep-seated issues that may have developed over many years. I recommend that you seek therapy to try and find out if there are any issues that are leading you to these behaviors. I think you are on a slippery slope and should take steps to limit yourself now, before it gets further out of control.
Once again, don't tell me to look at my own issues, blah blah blah. We all have our problems and most of us can admit that we have them and work toward solutions. Loving animals is not a bad thing, we all love animals, that's why we're here. We want to help and we wish you could see that.
You are clearly not stupid. Behind all the spelling mistakes in your posts you generally display the ability convey coherent thoughts. However, I think that you have a problem. You have too many animals and it's too much for one person. They are not getting the care that they need and we have seen photographic evidence of this, along with things you have said. You may try to argue that we misinterpreted your words but you cannot argue against those pictures.
Here is some information about hoarding from Tufts University for everyone to read:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/
It provides a definition of hoarding including
Quote:
Inability to provide even minimal standards of nutrition, sanitation, shelter, and veterinary care
Quote:
Denial of the inability to provide this minimum care
Quote:
The Addictions Model
Elements of the addiction model which are found in animal hoarding cases include: preoccupation with the addiction; denial about the addiction and its effects; isolation; claims of persecution; excuses for the behavior; and self-neglect.
Elements of the addiction model which are found in animal hoarding cases include: preoccupation with the addiction; denial about the addiction and its effects; isolation; claims of persecution; excuses for the behavior; and self-neglect.
Quote:
Attachment Disorder Model
This model is sometimes used to explain why some animal hoarders prefer relationships with animals rather than other human beings. They see the animals as safer and less threatening than people. Some animal hoarders who grew up in chaotic households may have seen the animals in their lives as the only stable feature.
This model is sometimes used to explain why some animal hoarders prefer relationships with animals rather than other human beings. They see the animals as safer and less threatening than people. Some animal hoarders who grew up in chaotic households may have seen the animals in their lives as the only stable feature.
Once again, don't tell me to look at my own issues, blah blah blah. We all have our problems and most of us can admit that we have them and work toward solutions. Loving animals is not a bad thing, we all love animals, that's why we're here. We want to help and we wish you could see that.
Maureen
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Six new rats
RAT ADDICT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newfoundland
Age: 34
Posts: 19,199
You are very close minded and ignorant.
I am not being mean,but this is the truth.
If your such a great breeder and such a great person,then why are you getting defensive? When someone gets defensive such as this,they are usually hiding or guilty of something.
You mentioned somewhere people agree with you? Who are these members? I am curious.Are they invisble and lurkers??
All of us care about the well being of animals and this is why were posting.Nobody is attacking you or ganging up on you,we just want you to be educated,because you aren't.Also whatever we post can be read by anyone,including someone lurking.When you post false information,we have to clear it up,so the average person does not go out and do this to their animals too.
This is a public forum,anyone can post anything and if we think someone does not have adequate housing or diets for their animals or does not know how to care for them or breed responsibly,we have the right to point it out and try to educate.But this is where you are close minded,since you think you are right and we are all wrong.Many of us are involved in animal rescue and hate to see mass produced animals with improper care.
I am not being mean,but this is the truth.
If your such a great breeder and such a great person,then why are you getting defensive? When someone gets defensive such as this,they are usually hiding or guilty of something.
You mentioned somewhere people agree with you? Who are these members? I am curious.Are they invisble and lurkers??
All of us care about the well being of animals and this is why were posting.Nobody is attacking you or ganging up on you,we just want you to be educated,because you aren't.Also whatever we post can be read by anyone,including someone lurking.When you post false information,we have to clear it up,so the average person does not go out and do this to their animals too.
This is a public forum,anyone can post anything and if we think someone does not have adequate housing or diets for their animals or does not know how to care for them or breed responsibly,we have the right to point it out and try to educate.But this is where you are close minded,since you think you are right and we are all wrong.Many of us are involved in animal rescue and hate to see mass produced animals with improper care.
* Lisa *
* To the world you are ONE person,but to a rat you are the world *
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* It's a rat thing...you wouldn't understand! *
Betta Bomb
Maybe when I wake up tomorrow Ill come online and realise all this is a hoax intended to spark our aggravation and promote some sort of action to be documented or whatever.. Does anyone else want this to be a massive (though well-structered) joke?
I am allergic to maths
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Earth
Age: 23
Posts: 1,318
I would much rather it be a massive joke, it would still be bad but not as bad as the truth...
I would also much rather this be a joke.
Rat-Taz-Tic-ly Addicted
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Emporium PA
Posts: 1,162
If that is the way you all feel and think so be it. The rat mentor breeder that I was working with we had a falling out not on breeding either it was a girl fight go ask her.
But why should exspain my self any futher you dont read my post becuase you can understand my spelling and even if I corected it you would proably not read it.
I have birth records and all that stuff for the one i have and can provide a linage and all. I have mentors helping me with the other pets I breed and as far as I am concerned what is my bizz is my bizz. I dont have to prove nothing to any of you becuase you are not my adopters nore are you some one I look up to as in a mentor or high up like the head of a club. you want to trun me in here is the SPCA's number here give them a call exspain to them what you think and tell them or send them what proof you have. Also it should be easy to look up PA animal curlty hot lines that are close to my area. see what they say here is the number 1-814-486-0101 or look up Cameon County SPCA in Emporium PA and check it all out your selves.
But I really dont care what you think I know what I do and the care my critters get.
and yes you did start on me the moment I got on here and post litters you started heckling me about breeding and I should not have to stare weather I have a mentor or not or I have done this or that or belong to this or that. you started on me from the get go before I could post I have been educated on the pets I breed.
My vet is yes exspencive and she dose discount for me depending what it is she can discount on certin persedgers like magor sugerys or spying but can also pay for the office visit and own her a bill. My cat when i took him in I payed 37 for the office visit I got a bill for 60 becuase when my mother when in with her dogs for their checkups she put money on which i didnt know about and that was about 30 she put down to help out which she didnt need to. I take my pets to the vet when they need medical care and get them what they need I may have a bill I have to pay off but at lest they are getting the care they need. Also if its something simple that i know what it is like a cyst or abbsest then I call her and get the medication I need for it and she sends me a bill. Just like she told me over the phone whar was wrong with my rat tripod and what to do, SHe also has an e-mail that I can e-mail her pictures if I have to and I can take them in as well for her to check out if there is a problem in behavir that a pic cant show. Yes she is exspencive but she helps me out becuase here in my house is all the rodents have to go. DO you know fusterating it is to come home to a pet left on your front portch? I get it constely and then I have to take it to the vet and the SPCA can only help so much with drop off and most of the time I or friends foster them to rehome them.
but its what ever you all want to think. If I was a horder I think my landlord would have kicked me out becuase the last tenets were horders, and if I were a mill or a byb I would be selling to any one left and right and be making money and spending it on me and not careing for them. I dont do that, it all goes back to the animals.
BUt as I said think what you will and belive what you want you are alowned to its a right but i am done with this topic and you all can write her all you want but likr that tattoie post and the cat keep righting I will move on to some other post or make on and keep doing what I do but I am not going to exsplain my self anymore to you becuase I feel as thougth its fallen on deff ears of what I am expaling maybe its the way I word things or type then out or spell who knows it could be both. Which even you all have fun depating and post amongst your selves but this post is just way off topic, I just posted my pig and now its some debate over breeding which was nto the topic but you all have fun this is your post know I will see you hear from you all on another post I am shure
But why should exspain my self any futher you dont read my post becuase you can understand my spelling and even if I corected it you would proably not read it.
I have birth records and all that stuff for the one i have and can provide a linage and all. I have mentors helping me with the other pets I breed and as far as I am concerned what is my bizz is my bizz. I dont have to prove nothing to any of you becuase you are not my adopters nore are you some one I look up to as in a mentor or high up like the head of a club. you want to trun me in here is the SPCA's number here give them a call exspain to them what you think and tell them or send them what proof you have. Also it should be easy to look up PA animal curlty hot lines that are close to my area. see what they say here is the number 1-814-486-0101 or look up Cameon County SPCA in Emporium PA and check it all out your selves.
But I really dont care what you think I know what I do and the care my critters get.
and yes you did start on me the moment I got on here and post litters you started heckling me about breeding and I should not have to stare weather I have a mentor or not or I have done this or that or belong to this or that. you started on me from the get go before I could post I have been educated on the pets I breed.
My vet is yes exspencive and she dose discount for me depending what it is she can discount on certin persedgers like magor sugerys or spying but can also pay for the office visit and own her a bill. My cat when i took him in I payed 37 for the office visit I got a bill for 60 becuase when my mother when in with her dogs for their checkups she put money on which i didnt know about and that was about 30 she put down to help out which she didnt need to. I take my pets to the vet when they need medical care and get them what they need I may have a bill I have to pay off but at lest they are getting the care they need. Also if its something simple that i know what it is like a cyst or abbsest then I call her and get the medication I need for it and she sends me a bill. Just like she told me over the phone whar was wrong with my rat tripod and what to do, SHe also has an e-mail that I can e-mail her pictures if I have to and I can take them in as well for her to check out if there is a problem in behavir that a pic cant show. Yes she is exspencive but she helps me out becuase here in my house is all the rodents have to go. DO you know fusterating it is to come home to a pet left on your front portch? I get it constely and then I have to take it to the vet and the SPCA can only help so much with drop off and most of the time I or friends foster them to rehome them.
but its what ever you all want to think. If I was a horder I think my landlord would have kicked me out becuase the last tenets were horders, and if I were a mill or a byb I would be selling to any one left and right and be making money and spending it on me and not careing for them. I dont do that, it all goes back to the animals.
BUt as I said think what you will and belive what you want you are alowned to its a right but i am done with this topic and you all can write her all you want but likr that tattoie post and the cat keep righting I will move on to some other post or make on and keep doing what I do but I am not going to exsplain my self anymore to you becuase I feel as thougth its fallen on deff ears of what I am expaling maybe its the way I word things or type then out or spell who knows it could be both. Which even you all have fun depating and post amongst your selves but this post is just way off topic, I just posted my pig and now its some debate over breeding which was nto the topic but you all have fun this is your post know I will see you hear from you all on another post I am shure
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I think you are in the wrong place buddy.
You are the weirdest cat I ever seen.
Now matter how big or small wierd or normal we or animals may be we can learn to love and get along and love is what makes it all worth wild. Becuase Beautie is in the eye of the beholder an no one is ugly or more prettyer then anything eals we are all equal. There are some ugly people and things but that is becuase man kind makes them this way do to thier actions.
RAT ADDICT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newfoundland
Age: 34
Posts: 19,199
What your saying is falling on deaf ears? Ha! I think not...what we are saying is clearly falling on deaf ears (yours).And now I think your making up stories which you think we wanna hear!
I am done with this thread and with you.I am tired of explaining what is wrong and right and having it fall on deaf ears.Maybe someday you will realize your mistakes.
I am done with this thread and with you.I am tired of explaining what is wrong and right and having it fall on deaf ears.Maybe someday you will realize your mistakes.
* Lisa *
* To the world you are ONE person,but to a rat you are the world *
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* It's a rat thing...you wouldn't understand! *
Betta Bomb
I second this. Good bye.
I am allergic to maths
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Earth
Age: 23
Posts: 1,318
Just like to point out a vet shouldnt diagnose an animal over the phone, they could get it drasticly wrong, same with email. Im done to, goodbye.
Diamond, I personally rather like you, and think you have the best of intentions. I don't doubt that you love all of your animals.
But I have to agree. I went to your pet site. I saw your stock. I've read your posts on your care procedures and the sheer number of animals you keep. Basic math, if you are not spending the bare minimum of $2000 dollars a month on vet and basic husbandry for all the animals you say you have, I can't believe you are providing them what they need. I don't have that kind of money myself.
Love, I couldn't in good conscience purchase any of your babies, or recommend you to others except to show what not to do. It upsets me to say this, because I do like you. But this is wrong. I would hope you or any of the people here would say the same to me if I were doing the same.
But I have to agree. I went to your pet site. I saw your stock. I've read your posts on your care procedures and the sheer number of animals you keep. Basic math, if you are not spending the bare minimum of $2000 dollars a month on vet and basic husbandry for all the animals you say you have, I can't believe you are providing them what they need. I don't have that kind of money myself.
Love, I couldn't in good conscience purchase any of your babies, or recommend you to others except to show what not to do. It upsets me to say this, because I do like you. But this is wrong. I would hope you or any of the people here would say the same to me if I were doing the same.
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Hanging out in the Land of New Feetsies:
Melon, Skinner, Black Pete, Zanna, Custard, Tucker, Jeffrey, Zmei, and Windham.
Just to let you see I'm not just making up a figure. Since you interact with the ASPCA, I went to the ASPCA website. I got an annual breakdown of one year of minimal recommended animal care for each of of the animals you have specifically said that you currently own which is loosely as follows:
30 rats
12 gerbils
6 hammies
5 cats
30 mice
2 dogs
4 guinea pigs (plus these 12 you've just taken in)
1 snake
In many cases, I halved the amount the ASPCA suggested to give you the benefit of resources and discounts people don't usually get. A very conservative monthly breakdown was minimally: $25,000 a year, or roughly $2000 a month. This doesn't even include the rabbits mentioned on this thread or any other animals you have, Love.
I could never afford this.
30 rats
12 gerbils
6 hammies
5 cats
30 mice
2 dogs
4 guinea pigs (plus these 12 you've just taken in)
1 snake
In many cases, I halved the amount the ASPCA suggested to give you the benefit of resources and discounts people don't usually get. A very conservative monthly breakdown was minimally: $25,000 a year, or roughly $2000 a month. This doesn't even include the rabbits mentioned on this thread or any other animals you have, Love.
I could never afford this.
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Hanging out in the Land of New Feetsies:
Melon, Skinner, Black Pete, Zanna, Custard, Tucker, Jeffrey, Zmei, and Windham.
Last edited by Storyseeker; 01-26-2010 at 02:18 PM.
Rodentologist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,941
I'd also point out that the ASPCA's figures are ridiculously low for vet care for small animals. For example, for small animals they don't list ANY money in vet care, yet we all know that rats, being as tumor prone and respiratory bothered as they are, are among the most expensive small animals.
We are as gods to the beasts of the fields. We order the time o' their birth and the time o' their death. Between times, we ha' a duty. - Terry Pratchett.
"Men have forgotten this truth", said the fox, "But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed. - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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