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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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10 females 1 male mouse

So I recently bought some mice, it started out as I saw 2 that i fell in love with, bout everything and read info on them then went out and bought them.

Well one was male and other female, well you can imagin what happen. She got pregnant!

Well I went out and bought my bf an albino mouse and a black mouse cuz he wanted to breed them together. Well the black one was already pregnant!! (not by the mouse we bought cuz he was a pup)

Well the reason why i made this thread was because i want to know, is it possible for them to have so many girls and not that many boys?

6 was from one litter and 10 from another (well 10 became 5 in 2 days).

which comes on to the next question i have, can a black mouse have an albino baby?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 12:47 AM
 
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Since every litter is different, there can be more boys than girls, or more girls than boys, it just depends. And yes, a black mouse can have an albino baby as long as it's mate was albino or had a family backround of albinos.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 12:49 AM
 
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You flat out shouldn't be mating mice unless you have the genetics and are ready for it.
Genetics are tricky and ever species has LETHAL genes and mutation that should never be mixed because of hundreds of reasons.
Breeding mice together doesn't mean your a breeder.

It just means you let nature happen in a controlled environment.
A breeder a has a goal they work for to better the species they breed. Do you?
Or do you just want to breed cute mice and watch the magic?
Im sure youve heard it before but there enough pets in this world that are "cute" and "never bite!" but you need to hear it again.
There are few that live much longer than expected or dont have a genetic disease their species is known for. Or die from old age.

So tell me, do you know if your mice will live up/past 2 years?
Do you know the likeliness of them having cancer or passing it down to their generation?
Do you know if they are Lethal Yellows or just Argentes?

Saying your prepared doesnt mean when their old enough you give them away,
it means when the mother is in agony because a head or a body part of the pups is stuck in the birth canal,
you do everything possible to save her. Including paying that $700 vet bill even if she dies after all that work.
It means retiring the female at right ages and calculating that colour and coat is not even the tip of the iceburg.
It means staying up late after work or school trying to decided to breed or not to breed.
It means scouting the area and deciding not to breed because "this area has too many mice already, ill wont be helping anyone even if they are genetically sound mice.".


To answer your questions, Yes, gender is semi random.
A friend and well educated mouse breeder has had a number of litters just boys and just girls.

Yes the genders are mostly random unless youve had several litters with one pair
(should NEVER happen, females can only have two litters not back to back before it becomes a strain),
even then you can only do a rough guess at the genders. You still may be way off too.

http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/BioInfo/GP/Definition.html

Though you say youve read you need to study GENETICES, GENOTYPES AND PHENOTYPES more.

The albino gene is recessive. It takes TWO copies from each parent to have Albino pups.
If you Black has Albino pups per say, somewhere along his lines there was an Albino parent and his mate also has an Albino gene.
There are many genes your mice could be carrying without you knowing.
Phenotypes are sometimes hard to pin, this is why usign and knowing exact Genotypes is more than needed.

Last edited by bokuza; 07-27-2009 at 12:53 AM.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 08:45 AM
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And if you bought the black and white mouse from the same cage, there's chances they are brother and sister.

That would affect genetics too, right? Is it like humans and causes weak genes?
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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For Bokuza:
first dont take anything i say to heart, im answering your questions, and if it sounds rude i am sorry ahead of time.
I am not trying to be a breeder, my bf wanted a mouse that is white with black eyes, well he realized that its harder said then done.
So we are not going to breed anymore, until we can find good homes, with this 2 litters we have found good homes. but we are not paring them up girl-boy, its girl-girl. im keeping the boy.
I do think the mice i have are cute and they do bite, trust me i know that. but i was not expecting the ones i have to have babies so soon. i was waiting for a 55 gal tank from my bf's sister so i could put the females in there and have the other tank for the males.
Well now the females are in there and the males are in the other tank, the males may be from other litters but they do not bug each other cuz one never had the chance to breed (i am thinking) while the other did.
I may not know if they have any type of deadly disease or not, but I still took the chance when i breed Delilah and Mordecai. But they seem not to have any, but then again i could be wrong, and they could have the worst.
Which brings me to something else, all 6 from her litter are alive, while Yang's 10 became 5. so they were either so many runts or they had some type of thing wrong with them. And i am not going to be breeding her anymore, or any for that fact.


For Dustette:
I did not buy em from the same cage. I actually got all my mice from different places, which is hard to find in a small area i got but i got it done non the less. If they were bro and sis and i had breed them, the genentics for the pups will be a lot weaker and they would have loads of problems. Just like humans, yes.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 04:58 PM
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hey thanks for answering my question!
I have to say that since i never had any intention of breeding any animals i never thought about all the genetic research you have to do to be a good breeder!
It sounds interesting to better the species. I love genetics but I don't know much about rodent genetics!

A white mouse with black eyes i'm assuming is possible, but you would have to not go through albino history, otherwise it would have red eyes if it gets the white fur from albino...
Albino doesn't mean the fur is white, it means the gene for color doesn't exist. So you need to get a WHITE mouse, that has the gene for color to enable it to have black eyes. But is that possible? Otherwise i know there's a thing that exist for white squirrels with black eyes: what they are missing isn't the color gene like albinos but they're missing the gene that says where the color goes, so the information that color needs to go on the fur doesn't go through and they end up white with black eyes because the info for the eyes goes through.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Anytime
Rodent genetics is complicated, but its alot like human genetics, they have the same type of glands as we do, that is part of the reason why they use them in labs alot.
Having a white rat with black eyes could be possible if it was a white mouse, but bf loves red eyed mice....well actually anything with red eyes, hes going thru the stage of "red eye" lol
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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look at my sig, and you will see the mice and the babies.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-28-2009, 02:21 AM
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Those mice are adorable!


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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-29-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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From what Ive read Im getting mixed signals here...
So after you find the pups homes your still going to breed?

It doesnt matter if you have the best set up and the best environment in the world or even have extensive mouse knowledge, YOU NEED TO KNOW THE EXACT GENETICS AND HISTORY OF YOUR BREEDING MICE.

If you dont your breeding blind. You have no idea what you could or could not be breeding into these animals and you also dont know what they are going to look like or the percent of peanuts and/or runts possibly born. Or if by the slim chance they are related.

Im sorry but I cannot condone any so called breeding done without genetics backgrounds. I give the best to you and hope that you do end up buying a new stock from several breeders or stores that have the phenotypes and genotypes recorded for your using. Until then, I suggest for the safety of your mice and the mouse species you put a halt to breeding.

Also, I suggest you dont give out advice to others besides basics or attempt to help them in their own breeding projects until you have fully researched the mouse species.

@ Dustette
There really is no such things as a mouse with black eyes.
The eyes are just extremely dark brown/ruby.
The eyes themselves can look very dark and be mistaken for black, however they are BEW (brown eye whites) or REW (ruby eye whites). This applies to all mice.

Brown Eye White - They have brown eyes and are very often mistaken for black eye whites. There are several ways to breed these and its isnt very hard.

Ruby Eye White (with very dark eyes) - The Ruby Eye gene will dilute the coat slightly however has nothing to do with the actual coat color. Some beleive it is tired to the albino gene however it seems to be something that is created after breeding a darker eyed mouse with a light eyed mouse like an Argente. However it still baffles the mouse community with its spontaneous spawning.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 08:59 AM
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oooh that's interesting!


so if you need to know all the genetics and phenotypes, is it of the mouse species in general or of the specific mice you're breeding? if so, how do you know? you have to find a respectable breeder who knows all the predecessors of his mice who knows all their genetics?
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 04:24 PM
 
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There are many species of mice, im just saying the species you focus on. It would never hurt to learn related species encase of hybrids for whatever reason. Like if a field mouse snuck into a wire cage with your female.
But that shouldn't happen.

Im not sure what your asking when you say "how do you know?". Uh sorry...

Its impossible to find someone who knows all of the past mice in the line, however finding a good breeder mean they should have AT LEAST up to great grandparents.

Its not normal or easy for a person who doesn't have access to a huge lab to know all the genetics of their mice however if they have taken the time to keep track of diseases and health issues, genotypes and phenotypes along with notes about each mouse in detail then they could easily say they were taking responsible steps to being a good breeder and each mouse coming from their mousery was bred with care and research.

No, you dont have to find your stock from someone like this...you can do what many people do and just buy store mice.
But then you wont be a breeder. Youll be a fool with no respect for the animals you have contained and allowed to mate.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 05:40 PM
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So what I'm asking basically is how do you start being a serious breeder? You can't guess the history of a store mouse... so you have to go to a serious breeder to get mice to breed?

You have to start somewhere.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 11:05 PM
 
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Youve got it spot on girl, at least if you cant find a good breeder, try to attend shows where full pedigree mice are sold.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 11:08 PM
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ooh full pedigree, that sounds fancy!
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