To all wanna be "breeders" - Paw Talk - Pet Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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To all wanna be "breeders"

OK I am tired of posting the same thing over and over again, so I'm gonna say all I need to right here. Just a warning I do not intend to offend anyone, I just think some people really need to here this. It seems to me alot of people on here have or want pregnant rats or mice, and I do not understand this. Please understand that it takes a whole lot more to be a good breeder than putting a boy and a girl together. First off if you intend to become a breeder you should not have to come on a message board to ask how, I say this because the only animals that should be bred are those that came from a reputable breeder, with a ped and bloodline history. This is because unless you know their background, health and temperment wise you have no idea what you are gonna get. Even with a ped you are always taking a chance. However good breeders know what to breed for, certain gene combinations and so forth, which I cannot begin to explain because I don't understand it!! Which is exactly why I am not a breeder. NOt to mention some types of rats are nearly impossible to succesfully breed if you don't know what yu are doing, ie. manx and hairless. Also if you did get the rats (or mice) from a reputable breeder you would have had to have gone through an application and interview process, then if said breeder found you suitable to breed you would have to pay for breeding rights and you would be mentored in everything you need to know. If you really need to expierience "the miracle of life" do some research and foster a pregnant rattie or mouse. Although even then things do not always go smoothly but atleast you are giving an unwanted momma a chance. Also did I even mention the money you will NEED to have for vet bills? The pregnant momma and eventually her new babies will need regular check ups to ensure they are healthy, and of course if something does go wrong, an emergency C section or even an emergency spay, antibiotics, hospital stays, believe me it goes on and on!! I recently had a bad expierience with a rescue momma and her babies, I did everything I could and should and yet at 3 wks. the momma killed 7 of her babies out of nowhere, do you have any idea what 7 baby rats torn to pieces looks like?? Anyway this is getting pretty lengthy just one last thing, Please understand I am not against breeding by any means, it is actually required for breed betterment and to ensure there are healthy rats in this world. So please if you cannot meet all the requirements I have stated above and do not have an excellent breeder to mentor you,....DO NOT BREED!! Ok I am done Thanks for hearing me out!!
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 09:28 AM
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To all wanna be "breeders"

I must wholeheartedly agree with everything SLR said. Her words were very concise and spelled out why we should not indiscriminantly make babies. Know who you are breeding. Know who you are breeding to. Know your vet on a first name basis. Know your vet well enough to actually have a home phone number in case there is a midnight emergency. Have enough $$ in reserve to handle any of these emergencies with no wide-eyed questions asked.

i love my ratties. I would love to bread them and have eepers. I am not a breeder. I have the love but not the ratties or the knowledge to do it. I have spent lots of money NOT to breed (neutering 2 boys -- one of whom died from surgical complications not related to the neutering). I take my ratties to the vet frequently for "well baby checkups" to make sure there won't be surprises down the line that will cost extra.

I have said my piece. Think before you act. Be responsible.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosies_Mom
I take my ratties to the vet frequently for "well baby checkups" to make sure there won't be surprises down the line that will cost extra.

.

Oh good I'm not the only one who does that!! lol
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 10:44 AM
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I don't own rats but would like to commend you on your mature, intelligent, matter-of-fact information you presented. The same information can be presented to chinchilla onwers as well. I often see the same thing; people desperately wanting to breed chinchillas without fully knowing the hard work it involves. It is more than putting two animals together! People do not realize this. They think it is "cool" and like to refer to themselves as breeders. Breeding requires responsibility, knowledge, and money if God forbid something goes wrong. I wish more peopel would realize this.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Yes actually you have a point I should add this basically aplies to ALL forms of life!!
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 10:54 AM
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You've made some great points. Too many times you see puppies, kittens, and other baby animals in the pound because the owner wanted to breed and didn't know how hard it is to take care of everything properly.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 12:41 PM
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I agree! The only thing I would add, is to apply that to all other animals that might possibly be bred. They all deserve to have good genes and to see the vet and to be properly taken care of. So if you breed or intend to breed birds, chinchillas, sugar gliders, guinea pigs, mice rats, dogs, cats, ferrets, hedgehogs or anything like that, this is a great post to read.

And since I widened the spectrum a little, a good breeder does not release unweaned animals and takes the time and money to get shots to those species that need them (dogs, cats, ferts, etc.) before sending them home.
 
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarLoveRats
Oh good I'm not the only one who does that!! lol
Not only do I do it, I have to drive 1-2 hours to get there then the return trip is the same. AND I have to close my business for the day.

To you rattie people who think they are "just animals", this is how important my babies are to me. I don't mean to trivialize anyone else's time and money they spend on their babies. I just wanted to let you know that is it a huge sacrifice for me to keep them healthy.

When our beloved Jerry died, I had just returned from the trip to the vet getting him and his brother, Ben, neutered. Jerry has a small absess removed from his neck. Apparently there was more bleeding going on than even the surgeon realized. When we returned home, we had to leave immediately to drive back to the vet. He was bleeding out into the absess pocket. We had just gotten 5 minutes from home, when he died in my arms. If we had lived closer, he probably would still be alive today.

The above story is why I take them in often for these checkups.

We all love our babies too much to see this type of thing happen to them. Snuggle your rattie today.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 03:07 PM
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I totally agree. I will never breed my ratties or attempt to be a breeder. I just think there are too many out there that need homes, plus I do not have the education or experience to be a breeder.


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Rats have rights...& mice too!
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Wow I am really glad I got such a positive response to this post. I was a little nervous about it!! Anyway I know that I can sometimes be a little hot under the collar But i truly don't mean to offend people (as I obviously have in other posts). My main goal is just to educate and open people's eyes to proper rat care. And any other animal. For those of you that don't know I work in a shelter and also take in alot of rattie rescue's, I think that is why I am so quick to fly off the handle, I see alot of heartbreak in my life, almost all of which could have been prevented by proper education, so anyway guys glad to hear there are like minded people out there :blob4: !
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarLoveRats
Wow I am really glad I got such a positive response to this post. I was a little nervous about it!! Anyway I know that I can sometimes be a little hot under the collar But i truly don't mean to offend people (as I obviously have in other posts). My main goal is just to educate and open people's eyes to proper rat care. And any other animal. For those of you that don't know I work in a shelter and also take in alot of rattie rescue's, I think that is why I am so quick to fly off the handle, I see alot of heartbreak in my life, almost all of which could have been prevented by proper education, so anyway guys glad to hear there are like minded people out there :blob4: !
Yep, there are definitely a lot of like minded people here and people that are very serious about responsible breeding (especially with dogs and chinnies! ). Many PT members work at shelters too. I didn't find your post offensive at all. You are very polite and informative, and I totally agree with you.


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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 07:11 PM
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Good post SLR! I too think it applies for every species. I am a chinchilla breeder. I spent over a year researching these little critters and was STILL in for some surprises. All my chins are from reputable breeders/ranchers who not only breed but show as well. My first litter consisted of twins. The first one was born breech and had too much fluid in her lungs. She passed away about an hour after birth. The second of the two was stuck and required vet attention. I rushed the mom to the vet through a hurricane at 6AM on a Saturday...closest ER vet that would see chinchillas was about an hour away...it took almost 2 hours to get there due to the hurricane. The stuck kit died in utero and the vet was able to preform abdominal manipulation to expell the kit (saving mom from having to undergo a potentially dangerous C-Section) Mom was on meds for 7 days and came through with flying colors (luckily) After consulting with several large ranchers (some with upwards of 8,000 chinchillas) and after discussing with the vet, it was determined that she was healthy enough to go ahead and breed again as the chances of that happening again were slim. She is currently pregnant and due in March. My second litter consisted on 1 female baby...Mom's milk didn't come in for almost 2 weeks and I had to handfeed that kit for about a week. Talk about a crash course in hand feeding!! Luckily, I've been prepared for a while and had everything on hand to make the formula. The kit is now weaned and doing wonderfully!! She'll be going to her new home in a couple of weeks. My third litter was just born on Christmas Eve...one female kit. She dropped about 3 grams the first day and by day two, she gained 7gms! She continues to do EXTREMELY well! The first two litters had complications that had nothing to do with anything that I did wrong...just fluke things. All the mothers and fathers involved came from top quality lines...even the best bred animals can have complications....it's just how it is. Being prepared for them takes research and guidence from those with experience. I now work for my vet...so no more trips to ER through hurricanes for me! I have his home and cell numbers and get all my services for 50% off. I also have a credit card that is ONLY used for emergency vet visits (that way money doesn't have to be an issue)
As far as this being for all species...well, I can tell you right now...we bred our female pitbull once. She was bred to a top of the lines, purple ribbon winner male and had 13 puppies!! The constant care of 13 pups was insane! Cleaning the welping room 3 times a day...having to sand down and refinish the floor in there due to puppy poop...losing power for 5 days when they were 2 weeks old and having to rotate them round the clock ever two hours! We did get them all sold, and our vet gave us 40% off their vaccinations since it was such a huge litter...but even so, one pup ended up coming back to us in rescue malnurished and abused We screened all potential owners and never saw it coming from the family who bought her. It was truely heartbreaking...Fortunetly we got her all better and she is in a new home now where she's spoiled rotten and we see her often. My female has since been spayed...no more puppies! It was just WAY too much work and there are so many pitties in rescue, I'd rather give them a chance at a new life as opposed to bringing more into that situation.
Again, good post SLR!

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 10:08 PM
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I absolutly agree with everything here. Too many 'breeders' popping up these days, and not enough people really checking them out....

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-28-2004, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinchilla_Girl
She was bred to a top of the lines, purple ribbon winner male and had 13 puppies!!
That's a lot of puppies!!!!!


I didn't find the post offensive either, SLR. It was very well worded and well put. I do think a lot of people decide to breed their animals because they think it'll be fun and they enjoy the status of being able to call themselves of "breeder". Oh, and don't forget all those who say they breed to offset the cost of purchasing the animals. Yeah right. Good luck with that! I don't own ratties but I see people do this all the time with chinnies and it just drives me nuts. I'm always glad when other people notice that soooooo many people don't need to breed. I just wish the people who should notice would!
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 02:26 PM
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I completely agree, AND I commend you. And I come from personal experience. I actually did try to breed one of my mice one time, and luckily, I was not successful, because I realized that I had made a mistake. Not only was I immediately and regrettfully fearful that I had put little Hailey's life in jeopardy (as there are potential complications with labor, etc.), but I realized that if I wanted more mice, I could always go buy more, and give the ones that already exist a chance to have a healthy, happy life rather than adding to the already overly increasing mouse population. Why not save a feeder instead?
Although if you are a responcible breeder, I commend you as well, because I have done lots of research and realize what a hard job it must be!

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