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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Pregnant mouse, confused human

I've got a strange situation here. I'll give a bit of background info... My BIL has snakes. He bought some feeders, two didn't get eaten, so he was keeping them until the snakes were hungry. They were both males. One was picking on the other, the smaller one was getting weaker because the other one wouldn't let him eat. We seperated them, and got the weaker one's strength up. We named him Maximus. Anyways, my sister I guess felt sorry for him and decided that he needed a girlfriend, so one day she came home with a female. She put them together on January 28th, and decided that they could live together, despite being told that they would continually breed, not good for the female (Jezebel). On March 1st, Jezebel had 9 babies. My sister's cat was growing more and more curious, so the mice moved to my room after a few days. I figured that Maxi had already mated with Jezebel again, so it was pointless to seperate them at that point, and he was helping with the babies, I swear, he even tried to help nurse them sometimes. After 21 days, I took the babies and Maxi away from Jezebel, who looked very pregnant. I figured that if she had mated shortly after giving birth, the babies were due any day now, and I know how stressful back-to-back litters are on the mom, so I didn't want her overwhelmed with two litters at the same time. The babies weaned just fine, for the first few days, I gave them oatmeal soaked in KMR, and they were onto solids in no time. I know it was early to wean them, but I did what I thought was best for the mom.
Anyways, it is now April 25th, and no babies. Jezebel still looks pregnant, last week I know I felt a baby (there were probably more, but i felt one for sure). I just don't know what to do. I was planning on waiting for Jezebel to have this litter, and after they were weaned, she would be introduced to Esmeralda, and they would eventually be roommates. At this point, it would seem that Jezebel is not pregnant, because its been too long, even if she didn't get pregnant until the day I took maxi away. But I just looked at her, and her nipples are very pronounced, and she's got a big round belly. I just held her, and her belly feels harder, less squishy, and I swear I felt babies moving in there! But its been so long! I don't care about the babies, really, I just care about her. The babies will all be snake food, anyways. They aren't good pets. I handled the first litter pretty much from birth, but they are still mean. Two died naturally, pretty early on, probably from inbreeding and all, so I don't want them to be pets because I know how heartbreaking it is to lose a pet, even a mouse, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I'm worried about Jezebel, but I don't want to stress her out too much, I don't want to handle her too much, but at the same time, I need to handle her to make sure she's still okay. Any ideas?

4 cats: Radar, Oscar, Mackintosh, Qwilleran
1 dog: Daphne
3 rabbits: Barbarella Bunny. DC's Lucy, Ricky
1 daddy-long leg spider: Spidey
8 assorted tarantulas
1 madagascar hissing cockroach: Lady
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 12:27 PM
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whoa, weird, best wishes...

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 02:42 PM
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When I breed mice some females (after their first litter) took longer for their second one. Granted theirs weren't back to back, but they did take longer to give birth. So she might just be taking her time. (Hopefully one is not stuck, but if it was she would appear to be in pain and show signs of trauma.)
Is she going to the bathroom? I know with puppies they may over eat and not go to the bathroom for a while and their bellies get rock hard and you have to massage it to help them go. (Same with baby mice, the mother cleans them and licks their butts to help them go to the bathroom.) So, if she is pooping regular I have another theory.
Now, I do not know for sure, but I am guessing that if she was impregnated back to back that her body is not fully recovered from the first pregnancy and her body is taking a little longer to develop the babies (due to lack of nutrients from the first litter.)
I suppose all you can do (besides taking her to the vet) is watch her and make sure she is not in any pain or distress.

And, I agree with you about not giving the babies away as pets. I breed mice for pets and snake food. All the moms were sweet hearts, as were the dads. I'd handle the babies all the time and try to socialize them. I found that some were just mean and wanted nothing to do with people. Those were snake food, and the ones who were nice and wanted to be touched were pets.

I kept all my females together, even when they had litters. I noticed with my females (some were sisters, some where from the pet store, etc.) that they were like a little hippie community. They all snuggled, cleaned each other, were nice to each other, and were just generally happy to be near each other. Most times the other females will try and help with the babies. They will keep them warm and try to nurse them. (That's when you will hear angry babies because there is no milk. lol) They only time I had to separate a mom with her babies from the others is when the other females would constantly steal them and not let her nurse them. Sometimes they wanted the babies for themselves and sometimes they helped. I think that with one other female that it should be fine. Make sure you Qt them and then introduce them in a neutral place. If they get along you can try housing them together. (Make sure you clean the cage first and wash everything so it doesn't smell like the momma mouse. That way there should be nothing to fight over.) Now, they may wrestle some, but as long as they are not hurting each other it is just play. When she does have her babies, watch the other mouse, make sure she is not trying to steal them. If she helps then everything should be fine.

Good luck!
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Its okay to introduce her to another mouse this late in the pregnancy? Quarantine has already been done, I've had Esmeralda for awhile. She's not very social towards me, I don't think she ever forgave me for buying her and taking her away from her sisters. I bought her originally because I wanted to breed better quality than just regular feeders, and I wanted to play around with genetics, so I sought her out with a few traits in mind. But I've decided I'm not set up to be breeding, so she's just going to be a companion for Jezebel. The reason why I don't want to put them together right now is that my BIL's sister had a pair of females, then brought home another, not realizing she was pregnant, and tossed her in with her other mice, and when she had the babies, the other girls killed them all.
Jezebel is pooping just fine, her poops are huge! of course, she's a pretty big mouse, she always has been, but now that she's pregnant, she's enormous.

4 cats: Radar, Oscar, Mackintosh, Qwilleran
1 dog: Daphne
3 rabbits: Barbarella Bunny. DC's Lucy, Ricky
1 daddy-long leg spider: Spidey
8 assorted tarantulas
1 madagascar hissing cockroach: Lady
3 chickens
1 ball python: Eve
1 corn snake: Charisma
1 California kingsnake: Honey
1 tortoise: Charlie
2 Mali Uromastyx: Nick and Nora
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 10:07 PM
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sometimes when people use a nanny mouse to help out momma mouse the nanny either steals the babies, kills them because of jealousy, or everything is ok. I wish you the best of luck.


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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 10:58 PM
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Mice, gerbils and other rodents that have a fertile heat right after they give birth delay the birth their second litter so that she can fully wean the first litter. They develope till certain stage and then stay "dormant" till mom is ready to give them birth. This occurs naturally to avoid competition between older, bigger babies and fragile new born babies. I never had back-to-back litters of mice, but I did had back-to-back litters of gerbils, and the normal gestation period for them was 24 days, but for the second pregnancy it was around 31-35 days.

If she's having trouble giving birth, you'll notice it by her being restless, having contractions (they kinda try to walk, but stretch their hind legs, often "falling over" to one side... hard to explain... but I had a gerbil had distocia on her first pregnancy and it was really stressfull to watch...). And you'll probably see redness in the area.

I agree that you should wait to introduce the new mouse till after she has weaned the second litter. She might be a great help for the momma, but she can also kill all the babies. They will not have enough time to form a strong bond, and it would be risky.

Good luck with momma mouse, and let us know what happens.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 11:28 PM
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Good luck with her.I hope things go smoothly.




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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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thanks, everyone. I had no idea that they delayed the second litter, if I had known that, I wouldn't have been so quick to wean the first. I just didn't want her to be overwhelmed with two litters. I had no idea that her body takes care of that! I'm hoping for the babies to come tonight or tomorrow, but I've been hoping that for weeks... She's not really showing any signs of labor. I wish I had paid more attention the first time around, so I would know what to watch for, but she was still under my sister's care at the time, so I didn't get that chance.

4 cats: Radar, Oscar, Mackintosh, Qwilleran
1 dog: Daphne
3 rabbits: Barbarella Bunny. DC's Lucy, Ricky
1 daddy-long leg spider: Spidey
8 assorted tarantulas
1 madagascar hissing cockroach: Lady
3 chickens
1 ball python: Eve
1 corn snake: Charisma
1 California kingsnake: Honey
1 tortoise: Charlie
2 Mali Uromastyx: Nick and Nora
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padfoot
Mice, gerbils and other rodents that have a fertile heat right after they give birth delay the birth their second litter so that she can fully wean the first litter. They develope till certain stage and then stay "dormant" till mom is ready to give them birth. This occurs naturally to avoid competition between older, bigger babies and fragile new born babies. I never had back-to-back litters of mice, but I did had back-to-back litters of gerbils, and the normal gestation period for them was 24 days, but for the second pregnancy it was around 31-35 days.
I agree that you should wait to introduce the new mouse till after she has weaned the second litter. She might be a great help for the momma, but she can also kill all the babies. They will not have enough time to form a strong bond, and it would be risky.

I haven't had mice in so long that I forgot. But I knew I was on the right track. I remembered something about their bodies delaying the pregnancy until they were ready and healthy enough to give birth and feed the babies. Nice to see my knowledge didn't fade away completely.

Yeah. The other female may be a help or she may be a bad thing. It is hard to tell. It is true that they haven't formed a strong bond yet. It is best to wait, I just told you the best way to go about doing it if you choose to.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 10:19 AM
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I think the delay is normal because it is a back to back litter, she should have them in a couple of days. Good luck!

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 10:30 PM
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She will have a little bit of bloody discharge before going into labor.




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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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hmm. now she doesn't look pregnant anymore. Her belly is squishier than it has been, and she's thinner. No babies in her nest, and not really any signs of there having ever been any babies. Her belly still isn't normal, but then again, it takes awhile for human bellies to get back into shape after a pregnancy, so I don't know if that explains anything. I guess I should just keep an eye on her for the next week and watch for any more changes. I think its too late in the pregnancy for her to have aborted and absorbed the fetuses, and there was really no reason for that... Its weird.

4 cats: Radar, Oscar, Mackintosh, Qwilleran
1 dog: Daphne
3 rabbits: Barbarella Bunny. DC's Lucy, Ricky
1 daddy-long leg spider: Spidey
8 assorted tarantulas
1 madagascar hissing cockroach: Lady
3 chickens
1 ball python: Eve
1 corn snake: Charisma
1 California kingsnake: Honey
1 tortoise: Charlie
2 Mali Uromastyx: Nick and Nora
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 09:51 PM
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It could of very well been a false pregnancy.I have dealt with only 2 of these in all my years of mouse owning.One just happened recently...my girl Misty appeared pregnant.I will dig up the thread and let you have a look.




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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 09:53 PM
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Here it is.
http://www.paw-talk.net/forums/f16/f...ncy-40310.html





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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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reading that thread, it sounds very much like Jezebel... I swore I could feel babies in there! And now there's just a bit of tub, her nipples are less pronounced than they had been, and everything. Maybe because she had been living with a male, and then he was taken away from her? I guess its possible for a male and female to live together for 17 days without him getting her pregnant... or maybe she was pregnant, and aborted the babies, and then had a false pregnancy? I don't have a clue. I'm going to keep an eye on her for a few days just to be certain, and then I'll try introducing her to Esmeralda. We fed the last three babies from the first litter today, so now I'm down to just the adults, and once we do some cage re-arranging, I'll be all set.

4 cats: Radar, Oscar, Mackintosh, Qwilleran
1 dog: Daphne
3 rabbits: Barbarella Bunny. DC's Lucy, Ricky
1 daddy-long leg spider: Spidey
8 assorted tarantulas
1 madagascar hissing cockroach: Lady
3 chickens
1 ball python: Eve
1 corn snake: Charisma
1 California kingsnake: Honey
1 tortoise: Charlie
2 Mali Uromastyx: Nick and Nora
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