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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-13-2005, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Chin birth announcement, and I could use some help...

Hello all...
i'm announcing the birth of one of the cutest babies alive...a baby chin! I had NO idea Isabelle was pregnant...but apparently she got a little to frisky with Tutter (or stitch...we actually arn't postive) Any how Isabelle gave birth on the 11th. We found him around 1am and he was mostly dry so i'm guessing he was about an hour old, Izzy had one baby and it appears to be a boy, and a black velvet like his mommy (oh I hope he stays black!). My problem is this, this ive never had a baby chin before he's my first and i'm not quite sure how chin mothering goes...Izzy seems to want NOTHING to do with the baby - now i've never had chin babies but we have done extencive wildlife rehabing . So today we mixed up some fur-mula (as we jokingly call it) and gave the little guy some(I got the ratio out of a chin book)...he went from laying in the corner of the cage, hardly moving around...to activly going after momma...and trying to be with her, and appears to be trying to nurse now - where as before he kept climbing in the food bowl and just laying there...which brings problem number 2. I can't seem to find milk on her, I dont feel teets any where, nor any milk sacks. i'm wondering if she's dry... if this is the case we're gonna have to hand rear this guy as best we can (any suggestions from someone who's hand raised a chin before would be greatly appreciated, the formula you used, etc)... I called a friend of mine who has raised a couple litters and was appauled at what she told me...she told me not to even try to hand raise it it's completly impossible just leave it in the cage if the mother doesn't accept it, just let it die, there's nothing else that can be done. I don't agree with this... his mommy may not be a good mommy and may not accept her baby but i'm not just going to leave him there and let him die with out even TRYING. Any support and suggestions...would be ever helpful...Thanks so much.



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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-13-2005, 10:58 AM
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It may take up to 48 hours for mom's milk to come in. Hang an additional bottle of 50/50 water/apple juice or water/unsweetened cranberry juice. This will hopefully stimulate her to drink more, which should help with production.

I would only supplement if the baby starts losing weight or gets inactive again like you described. The more the baby suckles, the more milk production is encouraged. You should weigh the baby on a gram scale twice daily for the first few days, then once daily for the first few weeks.

IF you have to hand raise the baby (and you usually don't), you'll need to feed every 2 hours. The most commonly used formula is goat's milk based and is here:

1 can goats milk (in canned milk section at grocery store, evaporated milk can be used if goats milk can't be found)

1 can water

1 tablespoon dry rice baby cereal

1 tablespoon plain active culture yogurt

2 drops of light Karo syrup

There is a page on hand rearing kits here:
Link

I would also get some colostrum supplement if you wind up feeding him, and use it as soon as possible. I just hand raised two kits who were orphaned at a week old and one got so far as weaning and then just died due to an imbalance of gut bacteria because he didn't have mom's milk to establish that balance as a baby.

Also make sure they're in a baby safe cage. Babies can escape from wiring much larger than 1 1/2" x 1". Give mom some time alone - she's probably just got the first time mom nerves going on.

Here's another page on breeding:
http://www.spoiledchins.net/breeding.htm

Best of luck!

Stephanie

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-13-2005, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Jade,
Thank you for the help. I've named the baby Onxy "Ony". I checked Isabelle (mom) today again...and she's dry. no milk at all. Ony tries to suckle on her all the time, but apparent'y the well is dry. i'm hoping she'll get milk and decide to be a mom to him, untill then i'm feeding him to (hopfully) make sure he doesn't die untill she decides something. We've been using goat's milk cut 50/50, with a good pinch full of pharmacy grade glucose, we keep it on hand for debilitated animals and my dad who's a diabetic. That's what we use when raising wildlife babies orphined (goats are universal doners ha-ha). Since i've been feeding him he's more active, and even though he's still going after mom, looking for food, warmth and love... he starts calling to me to feed him after awhile of mom rejecting him.
Ive got them in a large hamster playground thingy I had bought to transport my sugar glider. He hasn't escaped from it, but mom has once and i fixed that problem (door didn't latch tight) and now she can't get out either.
I will try your juice/water suggestion. I hope she comes around, gets milk and decides she wants a baby. And I hope and pray little Onxy makes it as well. I'll add the yogurt and cereal when I fix his next bottle. And I will keep you all posted on little onxy.
Where can I find the colostrum? would petsmart or tractor supply have it? Thank you again for the links and advice.



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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-13-2005, 10:30 PM
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Jade always gives great advice Best of wishes for little Onxy!! Good Luck cowgirlsblues!!

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-14-2005, 12:32 AM
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Petsmart may have it, tractor supply would almost definitely have it.

How big is the cage they're in?

Remember not to supplement too much, as you WANT him to suckle constantly and stimulate her milk to come in. It's really a delicate balance and always a tough judgement call. You may not feel her milk in the teats or be able to express any. The nipples should be visible if you blow on the fur though. What you will want to look for is a full, round, warm belly on the baby. A baby not geting fed will have an almost sunken appearance to the belly.

Stephanie

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-14-2005, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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Isabelle chewed all the hair off her belly the night before she had a baby... I was told this is uncommon... She looks kinda funny now. Any way I can't even FIND nipples on her. The baby is not being fed by her at all...and tonight she's doing all she can to get away from it. Even trying to chew her way out of the cage...The incesant bar rattling is driving me nuts.
the cage is about 2ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft tall. I know it's a little small but I had her in a bigger one, and she could climb up as high as she could to get away from the baby. It's like she doesn't recognise it as being her baby. If he sits there and cries, she turns away and ignores him. He's getting to the point with me that if i put my hand in the cage he hops in my hand, and cries when I put him back with his mother, he'd rather me hold him. She will leave him in the corner shivering and refuse to let him snuggle with her to get warm. What is wrong with her? I don't know of a good chin therapist around here lol
His little belly is sunk in, unless I feed him. I left him with her for a couple hours while I ran to walmart to get him some more fleece and the grocery store. When I got home he was huddled in the corner, she'd taken all the bedding, and his little belly was empty.
What is the colostrum called? is it a certain kind or just the kind they use for baby cows... because I'm pretty sure I saw some calf colostrum awhile back at tractor supply. (I love that store!).
Thank you so much for all this help...and I just hope and pray this little guy makes it.
May God bless you all.



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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-14-2005, 01:55 AM
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Calf colostrum is okay, try to get the kind without animal fat and such in it. jefferspet.com sells a type without it, but you kind of need it in a hurry.

One of my females was like this (without the chewing of fur off) with her first litter and by the 2nd day she was fantastic; she is now my best mom. Some take time, some never are good moms. My last litter I supplemented for 2 weeks because baby was maintaining, but not gaining. Mom was producing milk, just not enough. At the 2 week mark, her milk kicked in full scale and baby didn't take another drop from me.

Peace and quiet with as little interruption as possible are probably the best chance your girl will have at instinct coming in. It may not, however. Hand rearing is tough and very labor intensive, so you ultimately have to decide how mom's reacting and if she'll come around or whether you're going to raise this baby. Weight gain is the big thing I'd watch for. What is the baby's weight? Is he gaining? Losing? Walmart sells a cheap digital gram scale in their kitchen section, I'm told. You really need to get one ASAP if you're going to be breeding and this little guy needs it right now.

Nipples are located on each side, in a row of 3. They start a bit under the front legs and off to either side. They're very tiny, about the width of a toothpick tip.

I hope Isabelle comes around for you! Otherwise you're in for a long 8 weeks! Good luck either way.

Stephanie

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-14-2005, 05:37 AM Thread Starter
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well, now Isabelle is attacking the baby every time he tries to go near her, she's also being agressive twards me...possibly because I smell like the baby. So it looks like i'm gonna have to hand raise him... no choice. i'm planning on going to tractor supply tommrow and trying to get some colostrum.
I'm just hoping and praying he makes it. i'll post pictures of the baby as soon as I get them uploaded.
Thank you for the help... it really means alot to me.



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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-14-2005, 01:16 PM
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Okay, here goes the details.

Baby needs to be in a cage with somewhere to hide, a heating pad on low (or if yours sucks like mine, medium with a thin towel over it) on ONE side only, pellets, and hay. Feed every 2 hours, more often if he isn't thriving. When I got my boys they were so dehydrated and weak, I was doing it about every hour during the afternoon/evening and every 2 hours at night. At about 2-3 weeks, they started taking more formula at a time, so I started decreasing to about every 3 hours, sometimes every 4 at night. At about 4-5 weeks they started going to every 4. They didn't fully wean until about 7 weeks old, so this is going to be a long road for you.

I kept a notebook of their weights and weighed them twice daily for the first 2 weeks until I saw steady gain, and daily from then on until about 5 weeks of age.

What does the baby weigh now?

I do have to warn you, sometimes they just don't thrive. Especially the ones mom rejects. It's a tough job and sometimes you get rewarded, sometimes you lose a little one you've become very attached to. I hope you wind up with a sweet as pie little munchkin.

Stephanie

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for the kind words and the support Jade. I'm hand feeding the little guy who I think were gonna change the name, He seems to be turning to a grey so onxy won't fit. But we shall see. Any how he seems to be doing alright so far. I was able to get some colostrum today. but all they had was the kind with animal fat in it. They had 2 kinds in, both of which contained animal fats. So I went with the one that seemed to have more vitamins and things in it.
I just hope and pray he makes it. I have a feeling i'll get good and attached to him and he'll pass away.
I don't know his weight right now... our scale has gone MIA (i'm not happy about this...my dad has a box fetish or something he INSISTS on taking everything out of the package and throwing it away which has caused more then a few problems here and there, any how) My dad took it out of the box and now we can't find it...so i'm still tryin to get it. I can visibly see him getting larger, it's so weird to me to have something growing THAT fast, litterly right before your eyes.
I'll keep you posted on him/her,...I think it's a him but he's still so small it's a little hard to tell.
Thank you so much again Jade. It's sick and sad but one of my bestfriends isn't speaking to me, because i'm insisting on trying to hand raise this little one...she keeps insisting I should just let him die because there is no suppilement for chinchilla milk - and 'he'll grow up deformed anyway, may as well leave it and let the mother decide it's fate' ... I can't agree with that. I wonder if she'd feel the same if HER mother treated HER that way.
God Bless and Hugs to all.



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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 11:46 AM
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I can't believe your friend would say that to you. That's cruel of her.

I do hope the little one makes it. You get attached quickly to them and they tug on your heartstrings. And I hope your friend comes around as well, if not, not much of a friend in my opinion.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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I was in shock, abby is insisting i should just let the baby die, and not even 'bother' to try because they're 'exotic' - where's the logic?... And then she calls me and tells me her hamster (which she hates hamsters, and doesn't like cats a whole lot, yet she went out and got 2 of each the same day) got eaten by the cat, but she didn't care she's had so many animals she cant get 'upset' over a hamster...
I don't care WHAT it is. hamster, baby chinchilla, or a horse...it's still a LIFE no matter how big or small...



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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-16-2005, 02:14 PM
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Best of luck with the little one Heather. Jade has offered great advice. I have hand raised kits when moms have problems and they have all grown up to be real sweethearts.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-16-2005, 06:18 PM
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How's your little one doing?

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-18-2005, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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sorry i havn't updated sooner. ive been a busy bee, and with the baby sleeping is something I remember I once did. lol. He wakes me up at least once an hour.
so far he seems to be doing good. he's visibly getting bigger. he's been going every where with me. I guess he'll be a well traveled chin when he gets older.
I'm hoping this will all end well... and not end in more heartache. The baby is VERY vocal... I hope that's a good thing, hehe. I'll post more soon!



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