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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-11-2009, 07:32 PM
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I'd be interested to hear what the Indy Zoo vet says. I worked in zoo's for 20 years, and I can tell you that all zoos routinely use drugs and vaccines "off label". There are no heart or hypertension meds made for, or tested on, gorillas or orangs or lemurs, etc. Same for all exotics kept there. They used the best options they had, like horse vaccines and meds on Zebras.
The difference is that the "owners" of the animals (the Zoo) is presumed to understand and accept the inherent risks involved.

There is no separate license required for "exotic" vets. They can choose to be board certified in some areas of expertise, like avian medicine, but that is within the profession, not a requirement by a state.

One of my best friends is an exotic vet, and I'm fairly sure that she has refused to vaccinate (for legal reasons) any animal that is not specifically mentioned in the paperwork that accompanies the vaccine. She's at the conference of the Association of Avian Vets right now, but I'll ask her when she returns in a couple of days. She was the one who informed me that she could be sued, and that the state also has problems with vets going "off label" for some things, ...like rabies vaccines.

I hope you don't run into the roadblock with your fox. But as I said earlier, I would be surprised if there isn't a vaccine specifically designed for foxes in farms.

Bob



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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-12-2009, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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Since it seems we may, or may not have reached an impasse, it is definitely time for "Pet Fox 808".

The symbolism of the fox includes 'thinking outside of the box'.
Since I have been to college, which is supposed to teach people how to think, and I have some excellent internet research skills, ....let's do some thinking.

First of all, according to Indiana BOAH, Indiana Rabies Laws and Regulations --Rule 5. Rabies Immunization
345 IAC 1-5-1 Rabies vaccination

Authority: IC 15-17-3-21
Affected: IC 15-17-3-13; IC 15-17-6

345 IAC 1-5-2 Required rabies vaccination of dogs, cats, and ferrets
Section 2
All dogs, cats, and ferrets three (3) months of age and older must be vaccinated against rabies.

*
So here we see that the state requires the rabies inoculations for only dogs, cats and ferrets. Since we know the fox is not a cat or ferret, we then must determine if the state considers a fox as a dog. Assuming that it does not, it is safe to say that inoculating Sidney is not required by law.
*
However, it is highly desireable for Sidney to get vaccinated. ...
And so, I have to think. Sale of rabies vaccines to anyone besides an accredited licensed veterinarian is not legal, so....(by the way, is it really legal for a vet to charge for the vacccine when he injects an animal?)

I finally thought of another possibility. I know this certain guy, sat in high school homeroom with him for 4 years. He went on to become an Equine Surgeon. Pretty sure he is licensed and accredited.
I'm good friends with his sister....

But for the meantime, I'll contact the available exotics vet.

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

Anyone using this material for a 'for profit' enterprise such as a book or research paper or a website is requested to include a "Dedicated to Sidney" notation.
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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-13-2009, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Been busy here with the house renovations, and other fun stuff.
Now on to "Pet Fox 909".
I've made contact with two area exotic pet veterinarians....who don't treat foxes! I am supposing they stick with ferrets, maybe some birds and lizards, etc. One actually said that the DNR would not let them treat a raccoon.

So I did contact a specialist at a wildlife rehab, and she answered some of my questions. Ivermectin is perfectly fine for foxes, and so is the killed virus rabies vaccine. And yes, definitely plan to have Sidney neutered.
She also added that puppy shots are not necessary (but, hey...Sidney already has had them.)

Sidney has been a pretty good fox lately, alternating his time between hiding under the sofa and coming out to play. No serious messes, either. He's been meeting the family members, one at a time, and seems to like my boyfriend fairly well after a few encounters.

People have been asking me if foxes make good pets, and I have to answer that it would depend upon the person and his/her expectations, the environment, and, of course, the individual fox.
I have also been finding various websites about caring for pet foxes on Google....if I enter specifically 'care of pet fox' or 'caring for a pet fox'. Just entering 'fox' doesn't give that kind of information. And there really isn't much online about house foxes.
Sidney has also been enjoying various treats, such as cooked chicken liver, a strawberry, and of course, his favorite....apples.

Now, here's a hint that I just found...If you keep your pet fox a little on the cool side, and well ventilated, he won't smell as badly. Only occasional baths should be given. I have also read that females tend to be a little smellier than males.

Now, just a few notes when considering acquiring a pet fox (to keep us all up to speed)-- Foxes need secure enclosures---escape-proof cages, or pens with fenced in or cement bottoms and enclosed tops, and if in the house, definitely secure doors and windows.
Foxes like to have some toys. Sidney occasionally chews on a rawhide chewie, his cat toys, (some old leather harness laying around, upholstery, etc). So far, this has not been a problem since he is not a big-time chewer and shredder like some dog puppies I have had.
Foxes do not appreciate strangers and are not likely to come out to greet your guests----unless they happen to take an instant liking to them which happened when Sidney and I first met. I suppose it was because I had some interesting smells on me.
Foxes do not do well all on their own...they need some sort of companionship, such as other dogs, foxes or people.
And most important of all,,,,,,lots of apples!

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-13-2009, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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and now let's move on to "Pet Fox 1010" which I shall entitle 'Justification'. I have appreciated the lack of flames from anti-wild animal pet enthusiasts.

I like furs. I don't own any. My boyfriend's first wife liked furs and he spent mega-bucks keeping her happy.
I don't enjoy fur for the status symbol, I like them for the soft fuzzy feeling...and if any one was keeping an eye on me, they would probably see me always stopping to pet the wolf, coyote, fox, skunk, rabbit, etc fur, or to pet the deer heads, or what ever......
I have started decorating my living room with pictures and knick-knacks of wildlife.
When I first called about Sidney, I had to reassure the previous owner that he was not to become just a wall decoration.
I like furs, but what could be more wonderful than having a live one that licks your toes?

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

Anyone using this material for a 'for profit' enterprise such as a book or research paper or a website is requested to include a "Dedicated to Sidney" notation.
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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-13-2009, 10:54 PM
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Interesting post though I'm starting from the back up. Foxes do need puppy shots. They can and do get distemper and parvo too. So they should have those shots if you can find the killed form or a recombinant form, not mod-live kind. Galaxy-D is often used for distemper but is a mod live, still used commonly just because everyone uses it and tells everyone else to use it, so not a bad record. Mod live should always be a last resort though as zoo studies have shown exotics can get the disease sometimes from mod live vaccines. My vet said they aren't allowed to give mod live rabbies to any animals any more, but that may just be my state.

Okay on 303 descenting foxes is also ill advised because the tail glands are responsible for at least part of the skunky smell and they are also involved in metabolism and mating stuff, so not healthy for them to remove. not to mention it is a cluster of modified sweat glands so you would need to remove a large chunk of skin from the tail.

I don't have a fox but have been on the fox lists and learning for about 15 years now. Still learning though.

Over all great informatiuon but why turn an illegal animal in? It it's abused is one thing but most illegal animals confiscated are killed and if not they were used to living in a home do not adjust well to zoos or sanctuaries where things ar emore hands off. Yeah someone broke a law but that is no reason to punish the animal. We're not talking a mountain lion here. Basements can be made into big lovely habitats with lots of things for a fox to do.

You are often better off with a good farm vet than an "exotic vet". A good vet that will learn about foxes is much better than many exotic vets who may not be the best vets but know a bit about many animals. Just my experience there but someone with a firm knowlage of medicine is much better even if they don't specificaly know the species in question.

Mary
Quasi - - - - Hyzzie - - - - - Pua - - - Jupiter - - - Kat

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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-16-2009, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Sidney has been here over a week, and is doing fine. One of the spaniels is too "toy greedy" to make a good playmate for him, so Sid has been playing mostly with the other spaniel. Last night, Sidney camped outside in his cage.
When cleaning his litter box yesterday, I opened a new bag of litter. About an hour later, I found that the fox found the opened bag and just knew I had gotten him a new toy. He spread clean kitty litter around on the floor and has since been laying in it, rolling in it, playing in it......he's having just too much fun!

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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and on to "Pet Fox 1101".

Foxes are not quite domesticated. (Neither are ferrets, pet skunks, wolves or sometimes high percentage hybrids).

Sid has been enjoying some days outside in a cage, and some days inside playing with a spaniel and some days all by himself.

Unfortunately, he is a fox and requires every day, day after day, handling and interaction besides just petting his nose and feeding, watering, cleaning messes, etc.

So this morning, I said, "Okay Sidney, let's spend a day outside..."
Now, just try to catch him! Sidney hid under the sofa, not quite up inside of it. I reached in under the sofa, and was rewarded by just a little 'not quite a nip, but not one of those playful chew your fingers' display. (Ding, ding, ding...those alarm bells!)
*ahem* One of the spaniels immediately came in, which brought Sidney out to play. Sidney went out into his cage for the day, the spaniel went back out to his pen for the day, and here I am cleaning the floors, getting ready to bring Sidney back in for some special quality hands-on time.

Now onto the other fun stuff....Can Sidney get along with a cat?
Let's introduce Special Kitty #1.
(The previous special kitty #1 was Yeti, the himalayan/siamese mix who was a super duper mama cat, super mouser and liked to sit in the window while trying to get back into the house. I found her lifeless body on the side of the highway 4 days ago.)
This special kitty is either some sort of Siamix, or a pointed shorthair that just happened in a barn several miles from here. She's a gorgeous shorthair lilac or lavender point and her future boyfriend is Yeti's siamix son owned by my daughter. Thus I have to be careful here......Can she and a fox get along?

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

Anyone using this material for a 'for profit' enterprise such as a book or research paper or a website is requested to include a "Dedicated to Sidney" notation.
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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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"Pet Fox 1201"

Sidney is not acting too kindly toward the cat. Definitely not the same reaction as when around the dogs.

I've had some types of dogs whose first instincts are to kill and ask questions later. Pretty much what I saw with Sidney.

He definitely needs some one on one attention from me to continue our 'person to person' relationship. I got him on the leash and into my lap and he just didn't seem too happy about it....but then again, I'm not a pro when deciphering Fox noises. They sounded like some noises that I really couldn't compare with any other animal, beyond maybe a puppy whining combined with a wild baby rabbit screaming. A fox is generally not a domesticated animal. Anyone who has taken in a baby cottontail knows they do not get friendlier with age.....they just stress..

Called the Indy Zoo, got the message center, got someone who forwarded me to someone's voicemail which forwarded me to something else....not a lot of help there. I might try again. I see some email addresses...
So I tried again, and got the number for the zoo veterinarian office. "Please don't leave a message at this number."

TamanduaGirl, it's time for some private messaging. Expect to hear from me ASAP

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

Anyone using this material for a 'for profit' enterprise such as a book or research paper or a website is requested to include a "Dedicated to Sidney" notation.
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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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so Sid might or might not be a bit nippy. I called the previous owner again and now the story is maybe I should have Sidney neutered before he gets nasty during mating season.

(now sitting here raising my eyebrows up and down again and again)
****
He likes canned asparagus.
*******
So last night I had this weird dream about accidently backing my pickup truck into a goo pit owned by a guy who I worked with and went to school with, and as I watched the truck disappear, I wasn't worried cause I knew it was insured.
*****

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

Anyone using this material for a 'for profit' enterprise such as a book or research paper or a website is requested to include a "Dedicated to Sidney" notation.
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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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"Animals are sensitive and emotional creatures......" Izzy Stevens, Grey's Anatomy

An old friend of mine introduced me to refried beans and jalapenos. I love it so much


All I have tonight is the refried beans and ...go very sparingly on the chile peppers.

Sidney likes the refried beans........

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

Anyone using this material for a 'for profit' enterprise such as a book or research paper or a website is requested to include a "Dedicated to Sidney" notation.
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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 09:11 PM
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I am sorry but your posts and threads are quiet confusing. I thought this thread was about foxes not cars and food





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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 04:52 PM
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Several people have had their foxes kill cats. Generally they can tolerate each other but the fox will kill kittens and could do in a adult cat in a weakened state. So be cautious with them.

Mary
Quasi - - - - Hyzzie - - - - - Pua - - - Jupiter - - - Kat

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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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"Pet Fox 1301"
Sorry if people get confused. Trying to include info about food that Sidney likes to eat. And there are some that he does not.

Now onto to "Visitors and that good first impression"
Being the shy fox that he is, Sidney has his fave hiding place under the sofa. He's gotten to know that if he does not want to come out, all he has to do is give that "nip nip" and the hand will disappear.
So yesterday Sidney had visitors and at frist they thought they wouldn't get to see him since he was firmly planting himself under the sofa. After about 20 minutes, he slowly presented himself and I told the visitors to just ignore him and don't make any quick movements.
Things progressed from Sidney sniffing their feet, to their fingers, and finally he climbed up on the sofa with them for love and petting. He sort of reminds me of my son when he was little....he'd do things when he was ready.

You'd think that since I spend time with Sidney every day that he would be used to me and the household noises by now, but he is still pretty shy and skittish. Doesn't seem to matter how many fruits and veggies that he takes from my hand.
Sort of reminds me of the time I was sitting in front of the campfire at the campgrounds, and here came the baby raccoons. They'd climb right up on the lawnchair with me and wanted to be fed. I sure didn't try to pet them!!
The mama coons hung back (and later raided the cooler for their dinner). But anyway, Sidney has that sort of relationship with people....he'll approach when he is ready, and not a moment before.

Avatar is so totally stolen and is not an actual pic of Sidney. But is it so close to what he looks like, it's worth the risk.

All posts are in consideration for the 'future NAAF;...National Association for the Advancement of Foxes.

Anyone using this material for a 'for profit' enterprise such as a book or research paper or a website is requested to include a "Dedicated to Sidney" notation.
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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-27-2009, 06:58 PM
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Sorry if I missed it but how old was he when you got him and how old is he now?

Mary
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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-04-2009, 11:03 PM
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I don't get this...
Are you feeding your fox jalapenos?
I know that foxes are somewhat omnivors, but hot food like chili should not be given to them.

/Pia

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