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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Marmosets

Has anybody in here had any experience with marmosets, particulalry the common marmoset.

I have just got a baby, my first monkey. I have wanted a monkey all my life and as a youngster in my country, you could not own monkies and they were not native anyway. I had plenty of other animals, including some many on here would love and consider exotic I guess.

Anyway, I would like to discuss a little from time to time about it, any problems etc. I have found some good websites and it seems it is a lot more involved in raising them than explained by the seller.

I live in thaialnd and the information avaliable here is very limited, certainly the products available for them are near non existant as compared to the US.

Anyway, hope there is someone around to chat to about it.

The little fella's name is JackJack and I have had him for 2 weeks as of today, he is now 6 weeks old and he is doing fine.

Fingers crossed.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 08:28 PM
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I hope things work out well with you, and sincerely wish you luck with your new pet. I'm sure there is a whole lot the seller didn't tell you.

First off, realize that most primates, marmosets included, are in danger in the wild, should not be in the pet trade. Their bloodline is directly from animals illegally taken from the wild and contributes directly towards their eventual extinction.

You may run into some problems with your marmoset, let me warn you of a few:

Small primates are among the most difficult animals to keep alive and well. They share practically every disease you can get, and it's usually much worse for them. Strep throat while a problem for people is a killer for most other primates. They wil also shed disease freely to you, including E.coli, and Hepatitiis (a real honest to goodness fatal disease!)

Because of their nature, they will want to dominate you when they get older. ESPECIALLY males. I have NEVER known an adult male (pet) primate that was able to live through adulthood without serious fighting with its owner. Sometimes severe biting can result, and in EVERY SINGLE CASE that I'm aware of they either had to get rid of the animal or get it's canines removed (kind of cruel in my mind) ...usually both!

So. while they are cute as all get out when young, but they have to be diapered, they are smart as heck (which is not a good thing when they want to get into trouble!), they are not house trainable (they're poop looks and smells waaayyy too much like human), they are inherently risky for Hepatitis C (and other potentially FATAL nasties) and we can kill them with a sneeze.

It's my personal opinion that primates are not an animal that should ever be a pet. Admittedly my experience is not from ownership, but from working in a zoo, and only with Tamarins, Woolly Monkeys, Siamangs, Orangutans and Western Lowland Gorillas. ...Limited. But I don't know ANY primate keeper who would EVER want one as a pet...EVER.

All of that said, if you have any specific questions, I will try to answer them as best I can. You're in this now, and I'l help if I can.



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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, all these things had worried me.

These marmosets here were captive bred, the parents of jackjack were legally imported and microchipped from supposedly and hopefully legal captive bred parents. I realise that at some stage in the lineage that they were once taken from the wild, how far back, I am not sure.

Living in Asia, particulalry Bangkok, although not as bad as Indonesia and China, I do see illegal animals for sale. I have seen adult marmosets for sale here of which any legal proof of being bred here could not be provided. These were reported to the wildlife authorities but nothing was ever done.

Also another one called a 'slow loris', I have seen many of these babies for sale, the desire to buy them and take them away from the market and the small hot boxes they are kept in, is only defeated by the knowledge to buy one will mean it is only replaced again from the wild by another. these are absolutely the cutest little things on the planet.

Anyway, those are the illegal animals I would have loved to have given a home, but have not. This little marmoset was a different deal and the family that breed them, have been doing so for sometime and take great care of them.

I have had friends with monkies, but other species, gibbons and such and have heard their stories and particulalry about adult behaviour.

I intend to get a female for jackjack, so he has that company full time and can interact with his own kind. But I will wait 6 months to make sure all is well with this little fella.

The disease factor does worry me a little, I come from Australia, a country with very little disease problems and none of the nasties like rabies etc. I had kangaroos and various other animlas for years, healthy and relatively easy animals to look after, although as hand reared animals, still the same problems and effort required to successfully raise them as many others.

There are not really the specialist people here in this country to find easily to deal with these problems and get the info you need and have the tests done etc. A problem with living in such a country.

Can the marmoset be tested for some of the more dangerous disease, rabies and hepatitis as mentioned for example ?

Also as I read and as you mentioned, the common cold caught by them from us can kill them. What prevention of this is best, how easily is it caught by them. If being in the same house or area as someone who has a cold is enough for them to catch it, then how have they ever survived in any home ? how have they survived in zoo's with tens of thousands of sick kids and adults visiting them daily ?

As with everything, there are the horror storires, there are also the good ones, I am hoping jackjack will be a good one. For example, his recent bahaviour in taking to us, he will climb out of his little house where he sleeps for know and run around the table. he will come over and jump onto me and sit on my arm, wrap his 4 legs around and cling onto the hairs tighly and fall asleep. He thinks I am his Dad, i can walk around anywhere with him like this and he stayes hanging on and sleeping.

Granted with maturity, things change, as with any animal, even a dog. But responsible owners keep a pet for its life, not just the cutesy stages.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 10:42 PM
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Jack,
Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you are getting into. That's good.

As far as diseases go, it's pretty much the luck of the draw. Coming from a captive bred line that may have a few generations in human households, you can hope that he has acquired some resistances along the way (passed down in his mother's colustrum).

In the zoo, if anyone is feeling sick, in ANY way, they wear a surgical mask when in the primate building, and they don't interact with the animals at all. In most instances staff here wear latex gloves when touching the animals or their things (food, toys, etc). My advice is really just to use common sense and be very careful. I'd use a lot of disinfectant at every oppurtunity, be very clean with toilet habits, if you or anyone in the household are sick, avoid the area of JackJack altogether. Remember you can shed the disease for a couple days before, and a couple days after your symptoms. We give it a week to be safe. I don't know the occurance of Tuberculosis in Thailand, but find out and watch out for it. It's very likely to be fatal for him.

Parasites like Giardia and who knows what can often be found in their feces, so be very careful. I'm not familiar with the parasites and diseases indiginous to Thailand, but I would imagine you have quit a few that we don't have to deal with. A good vet is going to be your best hope there. Barring that, you might find an open-minded human physician that would be willing to help you out.

Don't worry about rabies, but many (many) primates carry Hepatitis and Herpesviruses asymptomaticaly in various forms. That is what I'd test for first. Check with the vet if you can get him immunized for whatever he recommends. We vaccinate our primates for rabies, tetanus, and hepatitis, When the human flu shots come available in the winter, we vaccinate with those too.

Those are just the suggestions that come quickly to mind. If I can think of anything else, I'll post it here under this thread for you.

Cheers



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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 10:38 AM
 
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i was just wondering, how do u get licences for exotic animals, and how long it takes cos my friend is going to get a license to keep a monkey i think, i can't remember what type and she would like to know how long it takes.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 01:50 PM
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Licensing requirements vary with where you live. Where does he live?



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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-31-2005, 11:49 AM
 
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she lives in the uk
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 04:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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Mygala,

I have been doing some research on diet, seems in the US there is a good store for getting some supplements and certain feeds, particulalry the Gum, for marmosets. I sent them an email asking about shipping overseas and they will not do it, to many problems in the past they have stated.

Anyway, I saw several itmes on there which would have been very handy to purchase, but cannot now and will have to rely basically on making my own dietary supplements and feeds.

I have read several areas re diet, different foods and so on. What I am wondering is if you would know of any general run of the mill foods available out of any supermarket, that would be suitable in various ways to make up these treats and supplements for a marmoset, particulalry the Gum.

Also, I need to make sure the commercial cereals and so on dont have any additives that will/could be harmful to him in it.

Anyway, any suggestion would be most welcome. He is eating a little fruit now, pawpaw, banana and mango each day and some baby foods in addition to the cerelac. I want to know about dried fruits, which are ok and which are not, I had read somewhere about apricots not being good for a certain species etc, also nuts and so on. I am also adding a vitamin supplement to his cerelac each day, which was recommended by the breeders.

Also regarding sunlight and vitamin D, how much sunlight is enough. We do not have him in an enclosure yet, but will in a few months and it will be placed where he can get about an hour and a half of morning sun, is this basically enough or do they still require some additional vitamin D. Remembering the sun here is very strong, it is very hot all the time and humid also, so leaving him out in the sun any longer I think might fry him !!!!

The problem here in Thailand is that a lot of food has additives and I have no idea what they are, also many things are sweetend here a lot, the Thais have very sweet teeth, so these types of things are limited. We have a few smaller supermarkets which have most varieties of popular foods for expats from all countries, so will be looking here for what I need.

Ok, thats it for now.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-06-2005, 11:34 AM
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I've never been a marmoset keeper, but let me just throw out some basic things that I've seen work with other primates.

Our Callitrichids all have a diet based on a balanced, canned diet. That way we are sure they are getting everything they need. If you can get the canned diet, that's what I would recommend to base his diet on. We use the ZuPreem diet.

If you can't get that, here are some basics:
Assuming that JackJack is weaned, lots of fruits just like you are doing. Be sure to wash them very carefully. I don't know how closely pesticides are regulated in Thailand, but I wash fruit very carefully here in the US and our USDA is pretty anal.

Human baby food is okay, especially the cereals. Cooked (usually boiled or steamed) veggies are good, carrots, onions, broccoli, cauliflower, whatever you can get, mix it up so he doesn't get bored with it. Occasionally try a little yogurt and cheese too.

For protien, insects and small invertebrates, snails, crickets, grasshoppers etc. Make sure they haven't been in areas where pesticides are used. As he gets older, maybe small lizards or other small invertebrates will probably be welcomed too. Cooked meat like chicken or turkey, cooked fish are also two good sources of protein. Beans are another good souce. Canned beans are fine in a pinch.

It's very important to keep changing foods at an early age, that way he won't get as picky as he gets older. Just like kids!

Get a good multivitamin supplement, they come in liquid form with a dropper. Make sure it has vitamin D in it. This helps with his lack of exposure to sunlight.

Here are some websites that might supply foods and Gum Arabic overseas:
http://www.our-pets.net/primatestore...upplements.htm
http://www.pet-care-plus.com/dynamic...tion-52313.htm
http://www.sanctuarysupplies.com/supplements.html
http://www.ffnmag.com/esearch/Search...6600%7C60-6750

Here are some other websites you might find helpful:
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/primate/care.html
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/v...tforaging.html
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/ANZCCART/...S_Marmoset.pdf

Hope that helps



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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-06-2005, 11:45 AM
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Just a question. You said in your first post he is 6weeks and that you'd had him 2 weeks already. Isn't 4 weeks young for a baby to leave the mother? (If that's been answered I missed it.) I don't know much about them so I was just curious.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-06-2005, 04:01 PM
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Very perceptive Lixx. Primates only make good pets if they are hand-raised. They can only be hand-raised if you pull them from the mom. Primates are very maternal, and it is very stressful for mom and baby. This is one of the biggest arguments against pet primates.

You might also think about all those chimps and orangs you see in the movies and in commercials. They were almost all forcibly removed from the moms. They are so much like us, and the mothers grieve for their lost offspring. When this happens repeatedly, they can develop sometimes severe mental problems. Just like a human mother would.



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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-06-2005, 07:01 PM
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How sad. Taking an animal from it's mother just to have it as a pet seems horribly wrong No offense Jackjack, I'm sure you are doing your best to take care of him.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yes, well I guess those thoughts are correct in every way. But also in this day and age it seems essential for basic life.

Look at the puppies taken away rather early for pets, look at animals weaned early for meat, look at animals raised wholly and soley for consumption etc etc.

I guess everyone would like to see them all in the wild, but also people love to keep many and varied species of animals for pets. They want to be closer to them on a daily basis that just seeing them in a zoo or wildlife sanctuary.

For a little pain in the beginning, I would prefer to see JackJack raised this way, taken from the mother, so that as he grows and later in life he can have a happier time. Because he is so quiet, at this stage, he comes outside with us and sits on the verandah and runs around and plays between us. Jumping from chair to chair and then back to me and running all over and playing. I am prefering this, to seeing him afraid and not wanting to interact with us so much.

Anyway, JJ and family have survived our first major test. A few weeks ago, my son started school for the first time, one week into it he got hit with almost every sickness you could imagine, well not all but enough. He got the flu, sore throat, conjunctivitis and infection in ears. Then he gave it to me.

So for two weeks, we were both sick, with other family members in constant contact also, we quarantined JJ in the office, leaving him with only contact with the nanny. Making sure hands were washed, food etc and table tops etc outside where he ran around and we sat at different times of the day were cleaned also.

Seems all is well after the incident and he has passed, touch wood, with flying colours and did not catch anything.

He is eating well, does not drink much water at all, seems to be getting all he needs from the cerelac and fruits. Managed to get some foods for him brought from America by a friend travelling here, but still need to find a local supply, mainly of Arabic Gum, seems all other food I can get here and can make my own treats etc, he seems to be eating and at least trying everything put in front of him.

So, just a little update on his progress. If anyone else out there is raising a marmoset, it would be good to get some more posts and advice in here. Thanks to all. JJ
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2005, 07:02 PM
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Jack,
There is a new article up on exoticpetvet.net you or your vet might find helpful:

http://exoticpetvet.net/dvms/dosage.html



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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 09:26 AM
 
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jackjack, I've semt up a PM, but don't know whether you would read it, so I'm posting here too. You had written that your marmosets is a captive bred one. I live in Bangkok, but I don't know where to find legal wild-life pets. All that I've seen in Chatuchak market are wild illegal ones. I'd appreciate if you could guide me to where I can find legal ones. Thanks and regards.
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