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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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already started bonding, let me explain

i broke quarinteen when i first brought Alex home....
i planed on doing a quarinteen but how can i??? LOL i live in a stuido apartment, and pretty well have no freinds....
anyway besides the point...
i dont think things are going well at all. i am sad...
i hope its not too early. after much thinking i decided to go ahead
and get the introductions and bonding started. i just want to tell
you all what happend and what you can make of it.

first off, Ryo is a spayed female, two years old. and Alex is a
nueterd male, five months old.

well, i got out my extra NIC cubes and made a small playpen. i put
it in neutral territory. i put Ryo in her carrier, and Alex in his
and placed the carriers both in the pen. i opened it up and let the
fun begain.

it started out well. i thought it was this "love at first sight" i
was hearing about. but just as i sighed in relief Ryo got ontop of
Alex and backwards mounted him, while holding onto the fur on his
neck. i read that this is normal and always happens so it didnt
worry me. Alex didnt fight the mounting much at first. He tryed to
run away shortly after and Ryo chased him. so there they were both
going in cirlces and grunting at each other. At one point Alex
grabbed a hold of her fur and yanked it out. i was shocked to see
this little bunny do this! Well Ryo decided she wouldnt have any of
that, so she lunged at him. i was scared it was going to far. so i
sprayed them in the face with the water bottle. it didnt even fase
them at all. they didnt stop to dry off, or even stop fighting. i
had to gently push Ryo away because i was scared she was going to
hurt Alex. at one time they appeared to be fighting dangerously bad,
so i put Ryo in her carrier for maybe two mintues and let her back
out. after that she backwards mounted Alex some more, and went into
his little carrier and layed down. Alex then crawled in beside her
and layed down with her. i was relived to see this. after about five
minutes of that Alex got out and went to the other carrier to groom
himself. they didnt pay each other much attention. Alex came out of
the carrier to check out his surrounds and twice he went next to the
carrier Ryo was in, and she lunged at him, but didnt even come close
to biting him. i think she was more less "stomping" at him. After
that he went in his pet carrier, and both rabbits were just looking
at each other.

i put them both up, and moved Alex's cage right next to Ryo's. from
what i have seen they dont appear to be too interested in each
other. Alex was watching her very closely and was up close to the
bars, but he lost intrest pretty quickly.

from everything i read i say this went pretty well! am i correct?

hopfully i didnt do anything i wasnt supposed to do, and didnt
introduce them too quickly. he was just so relaxed in his
surroundings i figured i could go ahead and do it. quicker i start,
the sooner i can finish!

Today they had another twenty minute introduction. at first it went
well. they compleatly ignored each other. id say they didnt pay each
other attention to ten mintues of more. and then Alex started
chasing Ryo. it looked like he was wanting to play. he keept trying
to get under Ryos belly. Ryo would run off and the baby would keep
harrassing her, so she would lunge at him (not attacking much, and
when she did get him there was no blood shed) and Alex would jank
out her fur. so i put a towel between them. they started to squable
after that pretty bad, so i put Ryo and Alex in there seprate
carriers. they calmed down, and i relased them again. Ryo stayed in
hers, Alex climbed in there with her, and they started fighting
again. I made a ton of noise and alex cam out. Ryo didnt chase after
him, but just layed in her carrier. Alex just explored his
surrondings and ignored Ryo after that. after a few more mintues Ryo
came out to investigate and netiher of the rabbits were being
aggressive. Ryo hoped back into her carrier, then the twenty mintues
was up, so i put them up, and i put Alex in Ryos cage and Ryo in
Alexs cage for about five mintues.
is this going bad?? or good?? or normal?


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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 07:29 PM
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I think you're introducing them too soon, personally. It's better to have them living next to eachother for at least a week before letting them be together.

That all seems normal, though...they almost always fight at first. I wouldn't start worrying yet .




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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i am worried though!!! **crys**
i dont plan on introducing them anymore this week!! that should be fine shouldnt it? i swear if i didnt seperate them i think they would had killed each other! but i know rabbit fighting looks visious even if its not. thanks for the reply!


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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratty_ratkins
i am worried though!!! **crys**
i dont plan on introducing them anymore this week!! that should be fine shouldnt it? i swear if i didnt seperate them i think they would had killed each other! but i know rabbit fighting looks visious even if its not. thanks for the reply!
I know how you feel...I'm bonding two bunnies right now too. But I know in the end it'll all be worth it since I've done it sucessfully in the past .

I wouldn't worry about the fighting unless there's blood or if one is obviously injured.




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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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i just noticed that Alex has a VERY small bite all the way through his ear!
is it okay to put some neosporn on it?
that scares me!!


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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2006, 03:32 AM
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I suggest going back to stage one for at least a couple of days..put the cages side by side and just let them get used to each others smells etc...
then when you do introduce them have no carriers in the pen..they defend it like its their territory..you may get the same problems with litter trays like we did..we eneded up letting them share a cat tray then mixing up the poo and wee and putting a little in their own pans in their own cages..
I think at least a week is perfect but in our house it was a few days..then the second attempt etc..dont lose heart..
the going under the belly is a submissive gesture and the humping a dominance one...bif would go under oscar all the time..now shes the boss and i mean really the boss!

When they fight..dont put them back in their cages..seperate them to either end of the pen..then bring them side by side and stroke them both and talk softly to them..then slowly seperate them and sit back..thumping the floor or the no and clap worked better than the water..but we did have to use water all the time..oscar was soaked all the time!
Lots of fur pulling and nips are the norm im afraid..and we foind a scabed over bite on oscars side but we realised it was not infected or deep..more like a graze

if its not too bad..clean it with small animal wipes..like the sticky bum ones..and either use tea tree cream or small animal wound powder..
if its looking nasty seek vets advice as infection can quickly set in..but do not panic..i thought a little bite would involve abcesses etc but touch wood we are ok..but theyre both covered in little scabs when we groom them..wonder how they got there?!!
I know youll laugh but we used our cats(who died recently) pet stroller..at a push get the lend of someones baby buggy or carriage and put the carrier with themboth in it inside and take them for a walk..more scary than car ride!
read all the info and tips but find out what works for you..ours didnt go by text book either!
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2006, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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thank you alot.
yeah i sorta rushed into it, i introduced them on Alex's day two. and Ryo has never even seen a rabbit! thanks for the tip on the carriers! i REALLY seen that, but it didnt "dong" on me.


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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2006, 09:35 PM
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yes- my vet said i could use neosporin on my rabbits little cuts and bites... so it should be okay to use.

and- from the sounds of it - to me- things look positive for you. i have been in the midst of insane fighting between rabbits- and you would know when one wants to kill the other- its petrifying and they viciously attack to draw blood any chance they get. it is very scary and very bad- and it does not sound like this is what is going on between Ryo and Alex. i think Ryo's maybe just a little ticked b/c i find that rabbits just resist cahnge. it seems that they get so content in there happy little routines that they fear any outside competition that may infringe on their happy little lifestyles

anyway! i think once Ryo gets used to the idea of a new friend - your two bunnies will be just fine. like i said- if she was compleltly opposed to the idea of another rabbit she'd attack him viciously and draw blood. or so i have experienced with my two...

well- good luck with everything. i personally think you have a very hopeful situation here. it will be so cute when they are snuggling and lying down together. i always wanted to see that with my two, but no dice. oh well. they are both very cute on their own too hehe


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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2006, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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yeah i think the MAIN problem here is that Alex moves fast, and he jumps really high. he is a jumper, he will jump and kick off the walls and get some serouis air time (with or without Ryo around he does this) and those movements make Ryo uneasy.
funny thing is, Alex seems to be the one who is *attacking*
Ryo just defends herself.
yeah i hope this works out. i feel i introduced them too fast. i am not going to try another session for about 5 days. i have been too stressed lately, and i dont think its good for me or the rabbits either one to try bonding again for now.
and when i do introduce them more i am going to do it in shorts sessions and work my way longer


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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2006, 11:52 AM
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i wouldn't feel too bad about introducing them too fast. it is so hard to wait when you just want to get on with things - because you know they will both be so happy in the end when they have bonded.

but i think your new plan about waiting a few days, and then doing shorter sesision to start sounds really good. good luck with it! i'm sure you'll have great success though.


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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2006, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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thank you! yes, i get easily discouraged....
but im an hopeing it works out. even right now with the cages side by side they are letting beside each other and not paying each other any attention


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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2006, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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AGGH, i had Ryo out free rangin around the bed room and alex in his attatchable play pen (attaches to his cage) and Ryo and him kept fighting throught the bars and wouldnt leave each other alone! so i had to put Ryo in her playpen on the other side of the room! every second they can get to each other it seems they want to fight. i heard during bonding leave them together for a few minutes or seperate when they start fighting... well what if they just go right at it?


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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-27-2006, 04:35 PM
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hmm... thats a good question. my problem was that i was just too scared to let them go at it for a few seconds. i have also heard that this is needed so one can gain dominance, and then the other one will submit, and then they will bond. however- i was just way too terrified!!! however- i fear i may have ruined any chance at bondng by not letting them iron out thier issues. its a hard call i guess. it just seemd like Thimble wanted to kill Sniffles! but honestly- i really think you have a good chance because you have a male and a female. i think same-sex pairs are probably the hardest too bond- especially females because they are so territorial!

also- i think if they are not actually biting eachother and drawing blood you are okay. when my rabbits fight between cage bars they take chunks out of eachothers' noses and bloody lips! oh my! that hasn't happened in months though - because i rose both their cages up so they can't harass each other when one is out free roaming!

anyway! i say keep at teh bonding- but just keep in mind that rabbits can cause major harm and damage in seconds. so- if a fight gets too insane end the session immediately! spray bottles don't even phase my rabbits either when they are fighting. they don't even notice the water.

but i'd definately try puting them side to side on the floor while holding their backs and keeping your hand ready to intervene. even my two girls will sit like that with out fighting, as long as i have one hand on each of their backs.

well- good luck with everything! cant wait til you say their finally bonded!


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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-27-2006, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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oh belive me i cant wait to say there bonded either!
thanks for your confadance


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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 06:35 PM
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some days we had this problem..and we turned everything on its head by keeping oscar penned up and let bif run free several nights in a row..it was him going for her through the bars and she was going..nah nah na nah back at him..
try that..it makes a heck of a difference!
try banging a rolled up newspaper or your hand on the cage wall everytime they do that..more scary than water pistol!

good luck!
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