Elvis the Goldfish needs your help!! :( - Paw Talk - Pet Forums
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-27-2005, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Unhappy Elvis the Goldfish needs your help!! :(

Hi there,

I have an approximately 1 yr old Bubble head goldfish (not sure of real name 'lion head' or something) who is ill and i need some advice. His name is Elvis and he is one of my kids favourites

Usual environment:

33 Gal sqare tank shared with 3, 1 1/2 yr old large feeder goldfish and 1 smaller goldfish that has no dorsal fin.

None of the other fish are showing any signs of problems, so I moved him to a 20 gal tank where i am trying to grow out a couple of pleco's to put in with a friends Oscars (newly cycled tank within the last two weeks so the water quality should be right on cue)....... when I moved him, i noticed he had a few white spots on his head that somewhat resemble mold, in the sense that they appear to be on top of the skin and fuzzy. he also appears to be bruised around his dorsal fin on his back. He is naturally a brightish orange, so i can't say for sure if it's bruised or blood, but it is fairly dark, and for about 4 days he has been pretty much staying at the top of the tank, sort of floating, but can swim down very well. Sometimes he shows signs of boyancy problems and does headstands, swims on his back to get down, etc, but appears to have full motion of all his fins. Kinda like he's dizzy almost. I went to a "pet center" last night and told them about the white and "bruising" and they gave me "Fungus Eliminator" which I slowly (over a three hr period) added to the tank. Tonight I noticed that he in fact has some red dots on his face/head area as well, and now he is sitting on the bottom of the tank and appears to be gasping for air (repeatedly opening and closing his mouth and gills). Any help would be greatly appreciated before he dies.

Thanks so much for any advice you can offer!
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-27-2005, 02:28 AM
 
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I've owned several varietied of goldfish and tropical fish throughout my life. Orandas and large goldfish are definately favorites of mine, and although I don't have any right now, I did own them for the better part of 5 years. Currently, I have a 130g fresh water tank with a 14 inch albino channel catfish and a pleco of equal size and a 30g fresh water plant tank with a few random small fish. I worked in the fresh water fish section of a large pet store for 2 miserable years. Ok, quailfiers done, onto the advice:

First off, it sounds like your fish has 'swim bladder'. This is very common in goldfish, and occurs when excess air finds its way into the fish's bladder and cannot be expelled. The most common cause of this is surface feeding (you know, those fish flakes you may be using). You'll want to swich to a sinking pelleted food to *help* prevent this in the future.

One cure for this is to add a small amount of aquarium salt (non-iodine) to your water. I think I used 1tsp/ gallon, but the dose is probabally on the salt container, or you can find it by Googling "swim bladder goldfish". There may be a medication you can use, but I found that the salt always worked best.

The white sopts are either "ich" or a fungus. You already have a fungus treatment, so see if that works. If not, pick up some aquri-sol (I think that's what it's called, light blue liquid in a clear bottle, if I remember correctly) to cure the ich.

I'm not sure what the red spots are. It could be blood from the other fish attacking this fish, or it could be a parasite of fungus. Check the amonia levels in your tank just to rule out excessive amonia levels.

Never ever change more then 1/3rd of your tank's water at a time, and NEVER change the entire tank (yes, there are ways of getting around this, but let's keep this lesson simple). Changing too much water at once will stress your fish and often leads to them getting sick. Also, changing water changes the levels of good bacteria in your tank, as well as the PH and the temp. Remember that what seems like a slight change to you is a major change to a small fish, and their bodies cannot handle it as easily.

Ok, I think I touched on everything. I hope this helps. LMK if you need any more info.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-27-2005, 11:49 AM
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I totally agree with the above post. Firstly the buoyancy problems sound like swim bladder which is going to need treating. I'd try for a start treating him with some cooked mushed up peas as they will clear his system out and hopefully help him, i'd try this for a start as i think the other issues need looking at and treating first and if the peas don't work then i'd try medicating him for swim bladder but make sure any medication you use or are using is ok to use with other medication. The long term solution for you would be to either buy sinking pellets or soaking his food for 5 minutes before feeding in order for it to sink so the fish don't take any more air in then they need to at the surface as this is what is believed can cause swim bladder.

As you are already treating him for a fungal infection i won't touch that as you have it covered but i recently had to treat a new black moor i purchased for a fungal infection and he sat for over 24 hours solid at the back of the tank behind a plant which is normal as they are trying to reserve their energy in order to heal, but it is worrying so keep an eye on him and if the treatments correct he should recover pretty quickly from the infection. The more serious side is these red spots and blood streaked fins i think they are a sign of ammonia/nitrite poisoning and this is what could have caused the fungal infection aswell as the water parameters are out and normally bad water is what causes many fishy problems as some fish are more tolerant than others to slight changes. Can you tell us what the ammonia and nitrite levels are in the tank as this might help ?

In my opinion the 33 gallon is seriously overstocked for these kinda fish especially normal goldfish, remember goldfish are filthy they are the dirtiest fish going and really for that amount of fish your looking at a tank over 55 gallon for them all to live properly with enough space. Its a myth goldfish only grow to the size of the tank goldfish grow all their lives and can get to huge sizes Also fancy goldfish such as bubble eyed like Elvis should be kept with their own kind i.e other fancies as normal goldfish are a lot more faster paced swimmers and compete with the fancies for food and can stress them out also causing illness. Goldfish are such complex creatures, i didn't know really too much about them till i got some a few years back and read up on them and theres more to goldfish than looking after tropicals my tropicals are a whole lot easier to care for but not as much fun

I really hope Elvis gets better especially for you and your children and please keep us posted on his progress

Kirsty


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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-27-2005, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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First, I would like to say that the pleco's are very itty bitty babies as far as pleco's go, and the goldfish is easily about 10-20 times their size. sorry, I don't have a cam, and I think I am fighting a losing battle. Is there somewhere I can look at pics of things that resemble what I'm talking about? I'm not very good with research I just got home and Elvis is sitting in a corner sorta on his side I put the net in to encourage him to move a bit and he just flopped upside down, so I lifted him some, and he half floated, half swam down to the corner and bonked into the glass and hasn't moved from the corner since he appears to have just a couple more white spots, and looks like he's got a big red mark on his side (but his fins are very clear). After looking at the red mark, I think it was there before only smaller, and I think I looked it over thinking it was just his natural bright orange colour. I have as of right now removed the two pleco's and put them into 2, 1gal tanks with water from the 20 gal until I can get the 10 gal up and cycled (working on it right after this).

The stuff Wal Mart gave me is the Jungle Fungus Eliminator.

I have not done anything to the water yet, so what should I do first, and how fast/slow, in what kind of doses? (like it was said to add an extra 1/2 tsp aquarium salt /gal, but how much at once? etc etc.)

I also have about a tbsp of Meleflex left, should I put that in??

And with the peas, I only have a can of mixed peas and carrots, so they are preserved peas, will that work? and how on earth do I get him to eat it?????

I also noticed that his face sorta looks like......well, if you look right at his eyes, he looks like the bubble head and his cheeks are sorta like a helmet or mask...... like he's got a space between his eyes and his skin......almost like he's shedding, or in a shell????? Does this make ANY sense to anyone?????? or is it just they way they look when you look that close???


I don't have the ability to get a water test done at this time (I work very long hrs in an unfamiliar area, so I don't even know if there's a pet store out here, it's kinda an industrial area. and everything by my house is closed when i get home except Wal Mart) So I'm planning on buying a testing kit as soon as I can.

As for water quality, he is in a very newly cycled tank right now, the tank he's now in has only been set up for about two week, and has only had the 2 pleco's in it for about 4 or 5 days.

And I guess it looks like I gotta get me another 20-30 Gal tank apparently.

Thanks so much for everything, I hope we can save him
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-28-2005, 07:35 AM
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No he would be ok with the plecos just the other goldfish would cause a problem in my opinion

As for the meds i normally do a small water change about 30% and then add the meds, i wouldn't add any salt for a start not with the fungal treatment i'd wait to see if that works for a start and then maybe add some as this will help him heal aswell. Although Melafix is good i wouldn't add any at the moment not if your going to use the other medication as you could over dose him with meds so i'd stick to clearing the fungus up for a start. As for the peas i use frozen peas, i defrost a couple in boiling water for 15 minutes and then leave them to cool and then feed them by removing the shell and squashing them between my fingers my fish go mad for them, but not sure about canned peas

I hope he gets better soon

Kirsty


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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-28-2005, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well, I just got home, and Elvis died We are all very sad. But I also thought I'd post his physical condition (besides dead)

His skin appears to be "shedding" on his head litterally. Like a sun burn when it peals. He seems very fat in the belly/bum area, like more than normal as they are "wider" fish. But his colours otherwise are normal bright orange. I would even go so far as to say that his layer of skin on his head almost looks like it exploded. After examining him closly, he had started to get a couple of small blood spots right at the start of his tail. very un noticable until you're cm's away from him (eww, he stinks )

Anyhow, I have to go break the bad news to my kids now and we have to go bury him, thanks for all your help.

Oh, and I bought a water testing kit tonight so I will be testing all my tanks........ BTW, what do I have to do now to make that tank safe for the pleco's again? They are without any filtration right now........didn't have enought to buy filters for the little tanks.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-29-2005, 05:05 PM
 
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R.I.P Elvis. I've lost a lot of my goldfish over the years to swim bladder, I've tried nearly everything going. I get attached to my fish as well, hope you're kids don't get too upset.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-29-2005, 05:35 PM
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aaaaawwwww i'm so sorry, RIP Elvis

As for the tank do you have any carbon filter? As if you do might be an idea to add that to your tanks filter for a few days in order to get rid of any meds that are left in the tank? I think there might be an underlying cause to Elvis' death and swim bladder being a secondry cause of it. If he's smelling sounds like something was eating him away i'm wondering if it could be dropsy as that would make him swell up, but either way i'm very sorry you lost him, sending you and your kids a big

Kirsty


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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-01-2005, 04:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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thanks so much for the help and support. I am thinking that he had the droopsy as well. I found some pics that show exactly to a tee what happened with elvis, but the pictures and thread they came from do not specify what is wrong.......can anyone help with this???

The pictures were found in a hospital album on another site and were just labelled "day 1, day 2 etc with an exception to the last pic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg elvis days 1 to 4.jpg (8.9 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg elvis day 5.jpg (8.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Day 6.jpg (9.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg elvis also had.jpg (16.9 KB, 10 views)
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 07:44 PM
 
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hmm...... i had a whole tank of guppies die with similar symptoms. only 1 guppie and my pleco survived. i'm pretty sure mine had ich and some kind of fungus or rot... hugs to you and the kids and i hope elvis is happy in fishy heaven. (were he can play and be friends with all the fish i lost...)
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