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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2005, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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goldfish not doing so well

Well I guess the setup didn't go so well because one of the goldfish I have is black and I can see a whitish film on him. I couldn't find him this morning as he was hiding in a decoration.

I had the petstore test my water and they said the PH high and to buy a reducer, that and the amonia was a little high and to do a partial water change.

I bought some ick and parasite cure but I just noticed that he was laying on the floor. I'm not so sure he's going to make it. The other goldfish seems fine and is swimming around. Hopefully, the meds I put in and the PH reducer will work.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2005, 09:21 PM
 
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What size is your tank and how many inhabitants? And how often do you change the water and how much water with each water change? How long has the tank been running? Some more info would help in figuring out what's happening in your tank.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-20-2005, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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I have a 10g tank with two small fantail goldfish. I just set it up on Wednesday night. I haven't changed the water yet. I did buy a syphon that I can try. The lady at the petstore said to try changing the water by 25%.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-20-2005, 09:48 AM
 
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Nikki, I see a few problems here.. maybe Extier can give you some more advice too.

1) The tank is MUCH too small for two goldfish. It's recommended that you have 15 gallons for your first goldfish and an additional 10 gallons more for each additional goldfish, so in theory you need a 25 gallon tank to start with. They will get big and they need the room. 2) You haven't allowed enough time for the tank to cycle (i.e. grow enough beneficial bacteria to break down the ammonia into nitrites and nitrates). This is a big problem as the aquarium will suffer from "new tank syndrome" if not cycled properly. It can take up to two months for a tank to be ready to accept fish. If your new tank isn't cycled (which it can't be in a week) then you can expect fish casualities. 3) Finally with such a small tank it can be hard to keep a stable environment for the fish, it is common knowledge that the bigger the tank, the easier it will be to maintain. With a 10 gallon tank you should be doing frequent water changes and such.

Oh and what kind of filter are you using?

Here's a great website you should check out: http://honors.montana.edu/~weif/firsttank/cycle.phtml
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-20-2005, 10:30 AM
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I agree with exactly what Plummie said the tank is realistically to small for two goldfish in the long term but as they are only babies it will do for now till you can get a bigger tank. Goldfish require a lot of room and its a myth that they only grow to the size of their tank. The reality is they do continue growing and go through a process called stunted growth where the insides continue to grow and the outside doesn't and in the end this kills the fish, the truth is Goldfish can live upto 30 years plus in captivity if they have the right care!

I think your problems have arose from water quality and it can effect fish differently as you are witnessing. If water quality is bad they will sit either at the bottom of the tank or hang around at the surface gasping, most problems with fish arise from poor water quality and as the fish has gotten ill so soon its probably something that wasn't caused by your tank or the stress of moving, its probably something thats come about at the store. I don't think the black fish has ick or a parasite of any kind so not sure if the meds you have brought will work it sounds more like a fungal infection to be honest if its like a white film over its skin as ick tends to look like someones sprinkled salt over the fish?! It might be worth doing a search on the internet and looking up fish diseases to clarify what exactly it is your fish has got so he can be treated correctly and be back to his normal happy fishy self in no time!

Back to the tank as its new its going to need to cycle inorder for good bacteria to form and break down all the mess the fishies excrete. Fish food and their excretions plus any plant matter break down into ammonia which is poisonous to fish and then in time this breaks down into nitrite which is also poisonous to them but less so than ammonia and then in turn this breaks down into nitrate which is ok in a small amount as has good properties. In turn all this creates bacteria which in time helps break down these chemicals quickly but in order for that to happen the tank has to go through a cycle till these bacteria can work for themselves and keep the levels down. There is cycling with and without fish most people go for the fishless cycling as when you cycle with fish your effectively letting them live in their own waste and its not very pleasent and can cause them stress but a lot of people still do use the cycling with fish method too its all down to the individual. As you already have the fish your going to have to cycle the tank with the fish, goldfish are hardy and can survive cycling aslong as you change at least 20% of the water every couple of days and this is neccessary. The tank could take anything upto 2 months to cycle and till you hit a even keel with zero ammonia and nitrite and a little nitrate then your going to need to keep up with the water changes every few days and once the tank is cycled you will need to change around 30% of the water twice a week to keep the levels down as goldfish are such messy fishies. It also might be worth your while investing in some testing kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH as means you can test a few times each week for yourself and also saves you the hassle of having to go down your local fish store everytime I wouldn't advise using your syphon for cleaning the fishies out at present as it will remove any good bacteria there is present i'd wait till your tank has cycled before even considering syphoning the gravel etc.....

I hope your fishy is feeling better very soon and please keep us posted

Kirsty


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-20-2005, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for all your help everyone!

What you are all saying is the complete opposite of what they told me at Petsmart. They said that they would grow to the size of the tank and I even replaced the smaller size tank I was looking at for a 10g and the lady there said that I could get two now!

It is my fault though, I guess I should have checked online or in here before doing any of that. My black one is not doing so good. I think his time is limited here and I feel awful.

I figured they would know at the petstore because it is there job and they do that ALL the time.

At least I know better now. I will not make that mistake again.

I brought my water to be tested again today since I put in the PH down and she said that it was perfectly fine. Now I just have to hope that blackie makes it through the worst. He is not looking so good at the bottom of the tank. I don't think he is going to make it.

Again, I want to thank all of you for setting me straight. I will be much more careful in the future.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-21-2005, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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I can't believe this. Blacking was not doing so good last night. I thought it was the end for him. He was laying at the bottom of the tank and gasping for air. Today he is swimming around like a normal fish. I can't believe it! I am so happy for him. I hope he gets better and better.

I put meds in their for bacteria and fungus. At first I thought he had protozoan parasites but as time progressed it looked like tail rot. I think he might actually be ok!
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-21-2005, 08:17 AM
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Hey that realy is great news, I hope he continues to recover for you.

Good Luck

I lost a Goldfish and Veiltail recently, but I have a 4ft long 200 litre tank, I only have seven fish in there now.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2005, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki6496
I can't believe this. Blacking was not doing so good last night. I thought it was the end for him. He was laying at the bottom of the tank and gasping for air. Today he is swimming around like a normal fish. I can't believe it! I am so happy for him. I hope he gets better and better.

I put meds in their for bacteria and fungus. At first I thought he had protozoan parasites but as time progressed it looked like tail rot. I think he might actually be ok!

That sounds like what happened with my Black Moor, for two days solid he sat at the back of the tank behind a plant and didn't hardly move (as he got a fungal infection after i left my cousin looking after them for a week, bad mistake ) and i thought it was the end for him but within 24 hours of the meds going in he was back up and about in no time and has been alright ever since

Petstores will sell you anything i'm afraid if it means a quick buck, i often see people buying a bowl and 2 or 3 goldfish and it makes me so mad as these little fish need so much space and are so misunderstood and its usually at fishstores i see this happening the most I was sold a 10 gallon tank for mine when i first got into goldfish keeping again after a break of 10 years or so about 4 years ago now and it wasn't till i started doing research into them on the internet that i found out how wrong i was and how much space they actually need needless to say i was mortified. Your fishies will be ok for quite a while in the 10 gallon probably about a year maximum then they will need a bigger tank usually about 15-20 gallon for the first fish and then an extra ten for every other first!

Glad to hear the Black fishy is doing a lot better, hopefully he will be back to normal in no time

Kirsty


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2005, 10:04 AM
 
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WOW. Great advice everyone. I concurr with all the great advice offered here. My only 2 cautions are that although your fantail seems to have recovered a bit there are still two things which should be addressed.

1. In the short-term, 2 small fantails can do fine in a 10 gallon... but these guys grow really fast, as you'll soon witness. You may want to upgrade in the near future to a 20 gallon at least. A larger tank is also more forgiving to fluctuations in water chemistry than a 10 gallon tank... so a little more room for error... or a little more forgiving.

2. You tank is new and is currently going through the cycling process. This process can tank up to 6-8 weeks. During this time, the goldies are exposed to increasing levels of ammonia and then nitrites... which is very hard on their system. It is then even more important during this process to monitor the ammonia/nitrite levels (as often as daily) and do water changes as required (as often as daily) to keep the ammonia/nitrite level at a safe level. This will prolong the cycling process a bit (as the good bacteria don't have as much food and will not grow as quickly)... but is less stressful for your goldies. There are a bunch of good articles on the cycling process and what to expect that would be of interest to you.

Also, if you know anyone who has an established and healthy freshwater aquarium... then see if you can get some gravel or sponge from their filter to put in your aquarium. This will seed your aquarium with the good bacteria from your friend's aquarium and will significantly shorten the cycling process... and be much less stressful for your goldies.

Here is a couple of photos on how big goldies can get:




Last edited by Extier; 05-23-2005 at 10:06 AM.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2005, 08:18 PM
 
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I love seeing photos of HUGE goldfish! Thanks for sharing those. Quick question too, how much space would two or three full-grown fantails such as the ones pictured above need? I'm guessing at least 55 gallons?
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-25-2005, 01:22 AM
 
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Those goldies pictured above are ranchus. And full grown fancy goldies of that size would require 20 gallons each, minimum.
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