Photos! NPT? Betta Q's help! - Paw Talk - Pet Forums
Aquatic Discussion Talk about your aquariums or ponds and their occupants here!

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2012, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
NPT? Betta Q's help!

Yesterday I went and picked up 4 ghost shrimp, a hornwort and a java fern. I bought a real heater, black gravel and a floating therm.
(sure sign my new student loan came through )

Lakitu was flaring and haunting the shrimp before they were released but he got pre-occupied and forgot about them when I released him from floating. The 4 shrimp were fine :") I thought transparent shrimp would gross me out but they're really cool looking! Anyway, I know sometimes Betta's can be sensitive to change and I selfishly turned his whole world around last night by changing the gravel to all black and putting the (well soaked and rinsed) plants in.... To suit my preference for the tank... I woke up this morning, tank was a perfect stable temperature (I'm used to fluctuations with the betta therm) Laki was there looking mopey.
I pointed to him (our good morning routine) and he didn't puff up like he ALWAYS has done since May when we got him.. I have never seen him so down and sooky. He was down in the plants sooking for a while, he literally just came up but he's apathetic. What do I do?
He's been in the one position now for a while... I don't want Laki to die!!! Does he just need an adjustment period?
Paramters have not been tested but with live plants I assume there's no ammonia.
<<This is him today
<<Lil pond bugs!! Sitting on a nano moss ball!!

<<He bit his tail the morning after we came back from Halifax :/
<<He was really energetic last night and hunting the shrimp through their bag, though he don't know where they are in the tank bc of the hornwort and driftwood.
Purple-Hops is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2012, 05:12 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
I would definitely get the water tested, that should always be the first step when a fish seems "off". Changing the gravel all at once might have messed with your beneficial bacteria colonies a bit, causing a slight ammonia spike. By now it might even be gone because of the plants but I'd test anyway.

What's the temperature in the tank?

Otherwise, yeah, he might just need to adjust.




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2012, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
:/

The temp was steady 75F all day. The shrimp were fine today, went to work, came home 5 hours later ALL the shrimp are dead. Lakitu's barely hanging on in a Q tank. :/

I'm the worst.
Waters getting tested Monday when I return the dead shrimp and maybe the plants.
Purple-Hops is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2012, 09:47 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
Hmm, has anything been sprayed in the house recently? Maybe a cleaner was used near the tank? Here's what I would do:

-Do a large water change on the main tank and get him back in asap. A quarantine tank isn't necessary when he's the only fish (it could have been used to quarantine new shrimp or something but I wouldn't put a fish in there) and it will only stress him out more. I'd also guess that the quarantine tank is smaller and possibly not heated which isn't good.

-Check the main tank carefully as at least some of the dead shrimp could have been molts. Molts tend to look just like dead shrimp.

-Buy a bag of activated carbon and run it in the filter. If you don't have one, consider getting a cheap HOB just for running it. Or at least drop it in the tank (after rinsing). If the tank was contaminated in some way, the carbon will absorb the chemical. Carbon works best when water flows through it but it'll still help a bit even sitting on the bottom.

-If there's any way to test the water sooner then Monday, do it and report back. Even if you can just grab cheap test strips somewhere.

-Don't return the plants right now, they may be your best hope for absorbing ammonia at the moment.

When you added the new gravel, how did you do it? Did you drain the whole tank? Do you normally do full water changes like that? I'm thinking that a lot of your denitrifying bacteria were killed. One way to help get a population going again is to add some gravel or filter media from a mature aquarium. Another is the product Tetra SafeStart, formally called BioSpira.

Do you have a light over the tank?

Unfortunately, sudden "crashes" like this are why I don't like bettas in tanks smaller than 5 gallons. There's not enough water volume to deal with ammonia spikes, contamination, sudden changes, etc.

I hope he pulls through, please keep me updated! And please get him back into the heated tank asap (but match temperature first by floating him or something).

Edit: Were the ghost shrimp "feeders"? Sometimes brackish species are sold as feeder shrimp and they're hard to tell apart. They won't survive very long in freshwater and it would explain the deaths. Cherry shrimp may be a better choice if you try shrimp again, they're freshwater and are hardier.




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-15-2012, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
Thanks Sasami,
Nope, no cleaners around the tank. I barely use cleaners around the house other than soap and water. But I didn't clean anything belonging to the fish or around his stuff. And I always wash my hands before and after handling his water and food (bc I use hand cream, I'm conscious of that)
oh no, the shrimp are as dead as the moon. As soon as I came home, I saw them. They were white and stiff. I only have a 3g and two of them died in the "shrimp corner" where they liked to hang out. (they quickly settled in after a day and favored a corner where Lakitu couldn't fit. So I don't know if he was chasing them prior)
The carbon and the filter and the water test have to wait until tomorrow. There is just no way to get to a pet store before then, I work today and buses stop running shortly thereafter. For some reason the mall I live close to closed down the pet store (the owner of the mall doesn't like the idea of crickets and mice and small birds being sold there which could potentially escape -_-" and instead of changing their sales, they just closed). So now I don't live anywhere close to a store that sells anything other than cat and dog food.
Yep, his tank was due for a clean and as I do when I clean it whole, I dumped the water and scrubbed everything clean with hot water and a sponge. I do this weekly (mid-week I change some water off the top). I never though there could be anything in his old gravel which might benefit him, but I'll set up the 1g with some new gravel and old gravel and the bettatherm heater.
I don't have an aquarium light, I aim a desk lamp over it for light every day (the black top of the KK filters the harsh light)
I only ever wanted a small tank with little maintenance. When we got Lakitu he lived in a .8 g which was cleaned everyday and from there to a 1g and now the 3. Never had a problem until now :< I guess I was just ignorant to the complexity of small tanks. I simply do not want a glass tank because I don't want to clean it often, I have severe chronic lower back pain and chronic stiffness in my upper back.
The shrimp were in a freshwater tank and there was nothing on the label that said brackish. I read they were but I also read they could be kept freshwater. I keep IAL in my betta tank which creates a blackwater effect but it hadn't set in overnight with the tank cleaning.
Anyways, tomorrow I will have the water tested and see what's going on. I'll keep the plants, is there any way I can keep them but rinse them of the water they're in now? Will it harm the tank when I clean it to add the plants again? How can I keep the shrimp to return them? Just stick then in a bag with water? And finally, the water sample... Can I just bag that up today for tomorrw? How should I store it? (fridge, left room temp..)
Thanks Sasami for your help. Lakitu is pulling through today, his colors are vibrant and he's floating around but he's still clamped. - I'd say that's from the tiny .8g he slept in. (I kept him in that small thing overnight bc it was just too late for me to be cleaning the big one and fussing over that at 11pm after work)
Purple-Hops is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-15-2012, 05:43 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
I'm glad he's doing OK . As for glass tanks, none of my current 5-gallons are glass...they're all acrylic, which is very light and easy to lift. A 5-gallon wouldn't need full water changes, though, so you wouldn't be doing any lifting. See, bigger tanks can be cycled easily (I made a sticky a while back in this section) which means you'd only be doing partial water changes (scooping out some water and replacing it...maybe occasionally gravel vacuuming unless you get good plant growth).

Don't move him to a 1-gallon, either, just do a water change on the 3-gallon and move him there. If there was anything toxic in the 3-gallon, it's probably gone by now and if not, will be removed when you change the water. Don't bother changing the gravel, either, any beneficial bacteria in the old gravel are dead so just keep the new stuff .

I'm definitely thinking those shrimp were the brackish ones. They can survive in freshwater for a bit (like at the store) but not for long. Some can be acclimated to freshwater but it has to be done slowly. Look into cherry shrimp, there's no guessing with those. You can even get them on eBay, haha. That's where I got my first batch. They love live plants, especially those marimo balls you have.

Keep the plants and don't worry about rinsing them. Ammonia is easily removed by just changing the water in the tank. By now the plants probably absorbed it, anyway . So you should hopefully get a reading of 0 with your water tests. If not, we'll figure it out!

The water sample could be collected tonight, yeah, just store at room temperature. As for the shrimp, that kind of depends on your store's policy but I would put them in a bag and store them in the freezer.

That sucks about your local pet store, by the way . I get almost everything online but I know shipping to Canada is insane sometimes (and I ship stuff to Canada and some online prices are NOT justified!).




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-16-2012, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
Thanks I'm going to the LPS today after school. I'm mostly grossed out by dead shrimp I realise :/ They remind me of bugs when they're dead and stiff.. I'll get over it. Still don't know if I'll replace them or get my money back. - there is another LFS down the road from PetSmart who sells cherry shrimp but they won't have any until Thrs. I doubt I'll be able to come up this week again but we'll see what happens!
Lakitu is merely surviving. I have never seen him this way. After I post this I'll straighten up the 3g (still, yesterday I worked and was tired and had homework..) He slept on his IAL all night with part of his head out of water.
The plants will be okay for him right? I plan on picking up some sort of water testing kit as well today, so I can do that at home. What should I look for?
As for the 5g acrylic, I'm going to wait on getting on to see if Mr. Laki pulls through! I don't want to put him through another severe change. I'm just wondering why he was so okay with the last couple of tank upgrades?
Thanks again! I'll keep you posted
Purple-Hops is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
How old is Lakitu? Is he eating? Yeah, definitely get him into the bigger tank so he has better water quality .

Definitely keep the java fern, they're easy to care for. Hornwort can be touchier, especially in warm temperatures. It's so cheap (or at least I hope it was, it's one of the cheapest plants here) that I'd probably try it to see what happens but if you return any plants, return that one. If you can find Anubias or Water Sprite, get one of those in exchange . Both are hardier. And water sprite can be left floating, which bettas love.

You want at least an ammonia and nitrite test. Get chemical tests, not test strips. If you get a kit, other good tests are nitrate, pH, and alkalinity (maybe in that order as far as usefulness with freshwater tanks). You don't need tests for things like Magnesium . Just the basics to check up on your nitrogen cycle and make sure nothing's wrong.




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
As for why it hasn't happened with past upgrades, there are a few possibilities.

-Maybe last time you used old gravel.
-The shrimp dying caused an ammonia spike and there were no beneficial bacteria to break it down.
-He might just be older and more sensitive to ammonia.




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2012, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
The water was tested at the store and it was totally fine. Nothing wrong with it. When I came home (with another betta instead of shrimp) I found that the hornwort was tied together at the bottom with a metal clamp. I'm thinking that either the metal caused the spike or 1/4 of the shrimp did. One shrimp died the night I got it, except I didn't know bc I couldn't see it. I noticed only 3 were active in the bag when I broght them home. The smallest one was injured, I think, by the employee when she was catching them.
Anyway. I got him to eat a couple bloodworms yesterday but today he wouldn't touch peas (I prepared peas for Bowser's mild bloat) nor would he fully eat garlic soaked pellets. I did a water change again, this time adding a small bit of aq salt. Heater is still reading at 25-6C.
I had him floating in the cup Bowser came in (it was cleaned, I was only using it to float him rather than use a baggie) and he was swimming in that, now he's in the large tank again. Not really swimming but I think time will tell.
Purple-Hops is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2012, 02:29 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
The metal shouldn't harm fish (although in my experience, hornwort prefers floating). I think it was probably the death of the shrimp.

It's great that the water tested OK. I have a feeling there was an ammonia spike but the plants soaked it up. That's the beauty of live plants.

Another betta? I hope you post pics soon .

Ah, yeah, the shrimp can be fragile. I've seen pet store employees injure them on many occasions.

It's good that he's eating something. He's kind of sounding like an older fish, though...do you know how old he is?




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2012, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
Hm, well Bowser is smaller than Lakitu was when we got him.. I don't know how old he was when we got him but Matt picked out the biggest one -L-
I had him since May 2011 (*calculates in head*) so I've had him for 8 months. And how old are fry when they're shipped for sale?
Purple-Hops is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2012, 02:37 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
Male veil tail bettas in the pet store are usually 6-8 months when they arrive, I believe. So he's getting older but isn't ancient or anything . I've had a few live to be 4 or 5.




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2012, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
Excellent to hear! I just hope he eats tonight when I take out more bloodworms! Maybe I'll do that tomorrow so as not to upset Bowser's bloat :/
There's nothing now in the tank with Lakitu except the heater and 2 cappa leaves. He's sleeping on one near the top now.
Purple-Hops is offline  
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome