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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Aggressive Doggy Behavior

Alright, I'm spinning this off this thread and will pose the question in it's own light. What are your opinions on the inate aggressiveness of the breeds that are 'labeled' as such by society? Do you feel that certain dogs are born with a natural instinct or do you think that it is purely cultivated by the owners. Please try to stick to this and don't get crazy with answers. I'm too lazy to move this to the debate forum if it does get that way.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 04:00 PM
 
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While some may say that certain breeds are prone to aggression I'm inclinded to disagree.

My opinion is that certain lines of certain breeds may be more aggressive in nature only because of the way they were bred. To me, aggression is something that is produced by irresponsible breeders and owners.
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 04:35 PM
 
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Quote:
To me, aggression is something that is produced by irresponsible breeders and owners.
I certainly agree with the above statement by Chrisanne.

If you, train any dog to be mean, your dog will be mean and vicious. If you raise your dog to be gentle dog, he will be a gentle dog. That is any and all breeds. Thats JMO
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 05:03 PM
 
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I believe the aggression is bred into the breed by irresponsible breeders and owners. I believe that bad situations, bad experiences, bad training, etc., take the bred-in aggressiveness one step further. I believe that while a Pit Bull may be especially aggressive due to his/her breeding, in the right environment, with the correct training, and with a good, caring, understanding, responsible owner, even a naturally aggressive Pit Bull can become a great dog. I also believe that even a Pit Bull with the best breeding (no aggressive lines, no fighting lines, etc.) can be turned into a monster by the wrong owner, or even with a good owner if the dog experiences the wrong things. This is true for ANY breed, including mixed breeds.

An example of such a situation is my dogs. When my dogs (Levi, the Australian Cattle Dog, and Myrl the Australian Shepherd) were pups, they knew few men. My father was busy working so they did not see much of him. The men I introduced them to were good, and they liked them. I carefully and thoroughly socialized them. We had lived at that house for over 4 months and never heard a peep out of our next door neighbor, when one day he got drunk and screamed at his mother, throwing things at her, breaking stuff, etc. The pups heard this and ran to the fence, barking, crying, whining. I tried to calm them down but the screaming, foul words, the sound of things shattering, and a woman sobbing upset the pups deeply. Because of that evening, they hate him. And when he gets drunk and goes into his backyard and kicks things around, they became enraged. They fear him and hate him all at the same time. And he, in response to their barks, becomes violent towards them. We have of course kept them away. If he goes outside the dogs come inside. But they have grown wary of men, and it takes A LOT of effort on my part to get them to accept men now. Levi, in fact, will accept few men. He tries to protect me from them. As soon as he sees a man he begins to snarl. My efforts to show them that the next door neighbor is but one man have not succeeded, even with them befriending men since then. They are still wary of men.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 05:03 PM
 
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Sadly though, some people breed in these traits. Which in turn does create an aggressive tendancy in said lineage.
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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 05:20 PM
 
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I agree with all the above, and although it is sad that in some breeds ppl do tend to breed in bad traits this proning to more aggression. However aside from that, an aggressive dog is the act of an aggressive owner IMO. It is all how the dog is raised, handled and cared for by their owner.
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 05:59 PM
 
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I have mixed feeling about this issue. I don't think its right to label a certain kind of breed. Its true that different breeds of dogs all have certain traits, but in most cases I think a dog's behavior reflects how its been raised. That doesn't always apply though because I have seen very aggressive dogs raised in loving homes.

I think there are many factors involved here and sometimes it just depends on each individual dog. When I was a kid we had a mixed dog who was extremely aggressive. She was shepherd and collie I think. Anyway, we got her as a puppy and raised her as a part of the family. She got lots of love yet she tore my lip open when I was five and I still have a bad scar from the sutures. She also mauled my little sister when my sis tried to play frisbee with her. I still don't understand why she was like this and it obviously was not because of my family and the way she was raised. Anyway, she was a mixed dog raised with lots of love, yet she obviously had major aggression.

My Aunt's husky mix was the same way. He even bit people he knew and family members that came over all the time. So in my opinion their behavior has to do with lots of factors.

Last edited by veggiegirl; 06-22-2004 at 06:10 PM.
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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So noone feels that some breeds are more aggressive than others? Do you feel that the stories you see on the news about dogs jumping fences and mauling people are all the result of the owners somehow?
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 07:23 PM
 
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I believe that those occurances of dog attacks are in fact indeed of a result of many things. One, being the owner yes. Two being the breeder/breeding. I also feel some attacks are due to the negligence of the people involved. If a child is attacked because it is tormenting a dog it is the parent who might not have instilled a respect for other living beings in their children. Adults who tease and/or torment animals... well, they should just plain know better.
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 07:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxias
So noone feels that some breeds are more aggressive than others? Do you feel that the stories you see on the news about dogs jumping fences and mauling people are all the result of the owners somehow?
As I said in my post, I do think that different breeds have certain behavior traits and some breeds tend to be more aggressive than others. But I think it depends on the individual dog too.
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 07:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxias
So noone feels that some breeds are more aggressive than others? Do you feel that the stories you see on the news about dogs jumping fences and mauling people are all the result of the owners somehow?
Oh most definitely some are. Because they got this reputation, and the kind of people who want a big mean dog go for the dog with the bad rep, furthering the bad rep even more. The media isn't helping. They're pushing this "vicious killing machine" attitude on everyone, because it's "exciting" and "interesting." What do they end up accomplishing? GOOD pet owners shy away from these potential problem dogs and the bad people out there want the "bad" breeds even more. It's a continual loop. Everyone feeding into it. We need to break the cycle.

As stated before (by several ) I think there are a lot of factors. A lot of things are going on there. The owners aren't necesarily bad, but they don't understand their dogs. They think the dogs are 100% trustworthy because they'd never turn on them, which is true. But they don't realize that their dog sees them as the pack, and they protect the pack and love the pack, but other folks are outsiders. Intruders even. Intruders that must be dealt with. I think there are a lot of reasons why each attack happens, and a lot of folks are to blame in the end.

Last edited by Tilt; 06-22-2004 at 07:33 PM.
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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My problem with some of the statements however is that almost everyone has mentioned the owner as a problem in all circumstances and I just don't believe this is true. There were people that both of our dogs didn't like and it had nothing to do with the way we treated either that person or the dog. I can recount a personal story as a prime example of why I personally will never own a Pit or a Rotty and I can guarantee you that I didn't purposefully do anything to invoke the anger of the dog that attacked me. I honestly can't say whether the owner had anything to do with it or not, but being a former dog owner myself I know how my dogs were treated and how they acted for 'no apparent' reason. I think the point I'm trying to make is that yes owners and breeding do have a great deal to do with how animals act and react to situations, but in the end you must remember that domesticated or not, dogs are still animals and natural instincts will eventually win over any type of breeding issues.

Wow, that's one helluva run on sentence.
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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 10:16 PM
 
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That's a good point Lox, and in some cases I believe it is true that they just turn at random. However, I believe thats the exception rather than the rule.

Agrressiveness IMO can be a bred in trait that happens to skip a generation or two then show up randomly.
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-23-2004, 12:08 AM
 
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Okay, Here are my thoughts and experiences....
Two major rolls play in when it comes to dog breed aggressiveness...
#1. breeding. Pitbulls were bred for fighting other pitbulls and for protecting cowboys from Bulls while dealing with their cattle. They were bred to be strong, tough, and stubborn so they would continue fighting a bull and keep it busy while ranchers tended to the cows. If the dogs got speared and gave up, the rancher's life would be at stake. These dogs were also used for sport. Originally put up against other ranchers dogs to see who was tougher. When Pitfighting was legal and the fights were allowed, a owner would have to be able to get into the ring and pick their dog up without fear of being bit. Any dog that bit a human was shot. There was a zero-tolorance when it came to human aggression. Now, when they bred these dogs, they bred for strength, durability and aggression towards other dogs. Many times these dogs were only handled by their owners and not by other humans...so human aggression wasn't seen. This caused the pitbull aggression to be bred in and sometimes that aggression gets misdirected and they do attack people...if an outside force isn't the cause of attack such as teasing and tormenting, it is often because of bred in mental instability that these animals used to keep themselves alive in the ring. As with mentally unstable people such as serial killers, something snaps in the brain causing the attack. Serial killers rarely kill because their victim did them wrong...they more often than not have never seen their victims until they kill them.
#2 Mistreatment of the animal. When an owner or other continually mistreats an animal, it's going to snap. Not unlike the child that sticks his finger in his brothers face chanting "I'm not touching you" Eventually that kid is going to snap and knock his brother out!
I have 2 pitbulls that are permenant to my family. Kali was from a breeder who originally sold her to another couple who neglected her and would beat her for finding her own amusement in chewing up their furniture and walls. The breeder did not have the money on hand to buy the 4 month old pup back and the owners were going to put her down. We stepped in and bought her from them after her breeder (a friend) told us about it. We know both her parents and they are very well behaved and completely sweet dogs. Her father has some aggression toward male dogs bigger than he is, but LOVES people. Her mother loves anyone who looks in her general direction. We kept Kali and to this day, she has only growled at strange men when her "Daddy" isn't home and they come to the door. I only ever have to tell her once that "It's okay" and then she is fine.
Orion is the result of breeding Kali to my friend Brandon's dog Mercery. Merc was bred for show and is broken coated Blue and White. Blue's have notoriously thin skin and have not generally been bred to fight because of that. Merc's personality is completely dopey. If someone broke into their house, Merc would show them around after rolling out the red carpet! Kali's personality is much the same in the friendly sense, but she's a lot more intelligent than Merc. The puppies as a result of this pairing are beautiful, sweet, adoring dogs who bond closely with their families. Orion is one of them. He, like his father and grandfather is not fond of male dogs larger than he is, but accept smaller males with a whole lot of patience...We stayed with some friends a while back who had 2 male Min Pins and almost the whole time those Min Pins were attached to Orion's cheeks...hanging on, trying to beat him up. I'm not so sure he even knew they were biting on to his cheeks because he didn't care!
I also have never had a problem with these dogs bothering my chins before the chin room was set up or when we quarentined them in the dining room or living room, they don't have a problem with the rabbit at all and don't try to "get" him. I have 3 kids running around jumping, growling, yelling, laying on the dogs almost all day everyday and both dogs just try to not get stepped on!
I honestly feel that responsible breeding for good tempered, patient, and loving pitbulls along with loving and caring owners are what's needed to break this Bad Rep and blow it out of the water. Unfortunetly, Drug Dealers. Backyard breeders, and unsupervised children think of these animals as weapons and use them as such...it's sad really. What could have been a WONDERFUL companion animal, turns up living the worst kind of life a dog could have.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-23-2004, 03:16 AM
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Well said Mandie!!! And everybody else!! I believe that the owners and bad breeding contirubte to al lot of it!!! I owned a dog that was bred badly, he too was shown all the love in the world, but I had him put down cause once he hit 18 months he got more and more aggressive...yes he had pit bull in him but I now own a staffy, part of the pit bull family, and she is the sweetest girl! She can play roughly with me and other adults that will play with her but as soon as a child is around she stops and will be as gentle as ever. I don't have any children, I think her previous owners may have had children but it just goes to show that it can be taught where as so many people say that you can't own a pit bull around small children...whatever! I don't buy into the different breeds thing....I totally buy into back yard breeding should be against the law and people who obtain these 'fierce' breeds should be interviewed first cause stupid people think it's cool to have viscious dogs.
My friends stupid fiance has raised two rottweillers to be extremely aggressive...I seen one of them grow from a puppy and he was the sweetest puppy but through shear ignorance of this moron I would not go within 6 feet of this dog. It is locked up in a pen all the time cause it can't be trusted and the dogs have bitten before.
I can think of five labradors off the top of my head that are extremely aggressive...one even mauled a fox terrier to death...would you call a labrador a dangerous dog? No! Ten years ago you wouldn't have seen an aggressive Labrador...I totally believe that back yard breeding has caused this. I mean just think about....stupid people get a labrador cause it's cute....they pay $600 for it and it has no papers. The puppy grows up and everyone comments on how cute the dog is and asks them if they are going to breed it....stupid owner thinks if I can find a stud for my ***** I can make a fortune just be having puppies and then there is the stupid idea that if a ***** has puppies she has a better personality, so they breed....doesn't matter that this dog hasn't got good hips and hasn't got a great temperment....they get $600 each pup and they don't care what happens afterwards.
My aunty is terrifed of my dog cause she is soo caught up in the idea that my dog is going to attack her any second cause she is a staffy.....if she actually knew anything about staffy's at all she'd know that staffy's are dog aggressive not people aggressive! They say ignorance is bliss....I don't believe that for a second!

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