to breed or not to breed? - Paw Talk - Pet Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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to breed or not to breed?

There are risks in breeding!

Brucelosis, EMERGENCY c-section, milk fever, coccidiosis, parvo, temperament change after breeding, puppies being eaten, round worms, hookworms, hereditary mange conditions, prolonged bleeding after birth, helping mother dog deliver, helping mother dog feed puppies, acute metritis, galactostasis, absence of milk, failure to produce enough milk, cardiopulmonary syndrome, tube feeding, baby bottle feeding, neonatal isoerythrolysis, umbilical infection, cleft palate, hernia, and the list goes on as well as inherited conditions such as heart conditions, hip displasia, hypothyroidism, etc.

When things go wrong be prepared to get out your credit card!

If you`re not in it for life, get a stuffed animal.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 08:50 PM
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Great post.


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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 08:58 PM
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Thank you Bar B! Great post!

~* Jackie *~

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 09:09 PM
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This is something I've thought about quite a bit lately ... I always said that if I ever got a purebred dog, I'd let her have "one litter" before having her spayed. I've heard several people say the same thing. Now that I work for a dog breeder ... my thinking has changed. You just don't realize how much there is to taking care of puppies - and it doesn't stop when they go out the door ... we just had a puppy diagnosed with a liver shunt. She was one of those that was so tiny when she was born, we thought she'd die within the first day. She struggled through, never gave up, we babied her along and when she was about 16 weeks, the right people came along and took her. We all called her our little "princess", they named her Mimi and were just so overjoyed with her - told us when she came back for her free grooming that she was "just perfect". Unfortunately she wasn't ... they came and got their "replacement" puppy today, as it turned out, another maltese puppy was brought back when her owners decided they couldn't care for her properly - so she was given to Mimi's people. These people were so subdued today - their joy was gone ... that in itself was enough to convince me I never want to "breed" dogs and take a chance of something like that happening.
My dog Blackie is one of 10. When they were 3 days old, their mother came down with a terrible mammary infection. So, the people I got him from took shifts feeding them ... Mom, Dad and two teenage daughters. 10 puppies, can you imagine ? Every 2 hours for a while.
First and foremost though, is the plight of all the homeless animals - it's heartbreaking to say the least. I myself can't think of one good reason to breed dogs. I love my job, but it's hard to think about what I'm "assisting" sometimes.

Sharon
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2003, 11:42 PM
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Is the liver shunt going to be corrected? If no one is up to it and you are around Missouri I can help out. My aunt and uncle have a Yorkie that had shunt surgery about eight years ago and their vet was excellent.

Another thing, with unspayed *****es the risk of pyometra is GREAT.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2003, 10:12 AM
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great post


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2003, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks peoples for your support on this post. I just had to get my two cents worth in when the other thread was closed before I had a chance to give a few thoughts. I know there are many more conditions that I didn`t list when it comes to puppies, pregnancies, care, etc. but when someone is thinking of breeding I think they should be a little more aware of what can go wrong, how much it will cost, how much work can go into caring for puppies if a mother dog decides not to take care of the babies, (and last but not least) mother dogs have DIED after having a pup hung in the birth canal for tooooo long. It`s a 50/50 chance that things could go normal or things could go VERY bad.

If you`re not in it for life, get a stuffed animal.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2003, 02:25 PM
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Absolutley true. Sometimes very very sad.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 09:19 PM
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Yes bad things can happen, and they do, but a lot of us have dogs because of breeders and they do alot of good things with animals as well.
I know of no animals that doesn't want to procreate and the risks do not matter in the slightest. That is why vets are around. They are trained to help assist animals who need it. I don't want to totally rain on your parade but it is unfair to want everyone to stop breeding animals and the ones who do come to these sites and feel very unwelcome. I don't think that is fair.
"Ignorant" people put two animals together all the time and some one comes along to "rescue" the animals from their ignorance all the while the ignorant one usually makes some sort of profit from the savior. I do not see the ignorance in that other then the rescuer being terribly misguided. It is a problem that needs to be addressed by anti breeders.
They need to see that true breeders of pure bred animals have love and adoration for their animals and if they choose to breed their animals they usually do get educated before they proceed, I would ask that people please stop trying to condemn them for their actions. They are not bad people. They are passionate about their animals. I just thought I'd put my 2 cents in here.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2003, 09:51 PM
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I would have to agree with the post.... With that said, I breed dogs. I breed golden retrievers to show. I also do rescue. I agree with what lvnmycritters has said, we are not 'bad people' and shouldn't be 'condemned' because of it....
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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To Lvnmycritters and Pure 14K.....

This post was not meant to bash breeders, it was only a response to those that have thought of breeding without thinking of the afterwards...

I too have raised 2 litters of Boxer puppies and have rescued (program temporarily closed due to plant shut down in October 2003). In breeding purebreds then you are breeding for the standard of the breed, health, temperament, inteligence, etc. With this in Boxers there are health test performed such as SAS, OFA rating on the hips or penn hip, then there is an elbow registry, patella luxation registry (being lateral for large and giant breeds), thyroid testing, etc.

In the other topic that was closed (before I had a chance to respond) I was only trying to advise the one that started that thread what could happen if things went wrong. After all she did have a purebred dog and didn`t seem to know much about breeding or its consequences. All to often people that are breeding dogs don`t know there are sexually transmitable diseases, nor do they know that some dogs have harder times birthing than others. Yes there are vets available, but all to often people don`t know when a dog is in trouble until it is too late.

And then again who knows, MAYBE just that little bit of information was enough to get them in the books to learn how to do it the right way...

The other topic title (just in case you would like to go back and take a look see) was listed as breeding?

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Last edited by Bar B; 09-30-2003 at 04:01 PM.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 04:06 PM
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Great thread! I work with many "breeders"....quoted because there is a difference in a "breeder" and someone who just wants to breed their dog. I've been through it all with the complications, and it amazes me how many people who call themselves "breeders" haven't a clue, and they look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them the dog has to have an emergency c section that will cost $400. Great info Bar B....hopefully it will change some minds out there as far as people who think breeding is easy so they will do research and know what they are getting into before doing it! Just like to add.....for those who wonder what research Im refering to.....some breeds of dog will almost ALWAYS have to have C sections.....they cannot free welp....one example is an English Bulldog. Others will do fine, but ANY dog may have complications no matter what the breed. So always research the breed as well as what to expect in general. One more thing... if a dog isnt pure bred with papers that say so, please do not breed it. There are enough unwanted mixed breed/ unpapered dogs out there who need good homes.

As far as "breeders" go, and I mean educated "breeders" with pure bred, papered dogs....I would never condem! I think it's fine, and in no way would I put those people down. My only problem is with "back yard" breeders who do it only for the money, or only for curiosity. Its just wrong in my opinion. And there are a lot more "back yard" breeders than there are real educated "breeders".

__Chipper

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2003, 04:15 PM
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I appreciate your response Bar-B. I really do agree with you about needing to learn before starting any breeding program of any animal. Education is a good start then experience can follow.

I know that I have bred guinea pigs and there is a lot of things that can and do go wrong. I have not experienced any losses of life but I know many breeders who have.

In the previous thread that was shut down it tended to be going in the way of yelling at the girl for inquiring about breeding rather then compatability of two breeds. I know that Schnnodles and Peekapoos are great examples of mixing them up and I have to suppose that more research would have to be done to determine if two dog breeds can be compatable.

Now she was being scolded for the breeding aspect and not the breed type. I have also been personally attacked for choosing to breed my animals. I wanted to just point out that it is not our place on any board to judge one another but to be a place to seek advice and make friends. She did a fine job of defending herself but I don't think she should have had to in the first place.

I am sure that what ever she decides to do ultimately will be well thought out and planned for. On the plus side inherited diseases have a lower occurance in mixed breeds then they do in pure breds. But the best advice I saw in your post was that the vet bills will be pretty high and that is probably the biggest issue to contend with in this situation.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel13
My only problem is with "back yard" breeders who do it only for the money, or only for curiosity. Its just wrong in my opinion. And there are a lot more "back yard" breeders than there are real educated "breeders".
I totally agree
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 11:14 AM
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I think it's also important to consider the type of dog you are breeding. If there is already an overpopulation then it may not be wise to add to it. e.g. there are already enough breeders handling "that area".

The AKC paperwork I got for Samson included a note explaining how popular the rottweilers have become and generally discouraging more breeding of them right now. Samson will be neutered once he's old enough simply because I'm not a dog breeder but if I were a breeder I think I'd seek out dogs that are not bred as commonly as the ones that are on the "current fad lists"

- Deb

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