Deaf Puppies Euthanized - Paw Talk - Pet Forums
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Deaf Puppies Euthanized

I came across this not too long ago..apparently the Dalmatian Club of America advocates euthanizing deaf Dalmatians.

My fiance and I have been looking into getting a Dalmatian in the future, and this disgusts me. To think, euthanizing a poor puppy just because, even deaf, it's not "pet quality"? They still deserve a chance to be adopted! I think this is utter bullsh*t. What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 12:52 AM
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My Dalmatian was deaf and he lived a long happy life. I didn't know he was deaf when I brought him home at 6wks. I learned alot by trial and error. I would never trade my experience with Sam for anything. He was closing in on 15yrs before I had to let him go.

It makes me sad that many deaf dogs are often locked inside their own worlds as many well intended owners don't learn how to communicate effectively with their pet. Finding good homes for them to live out a full happy life isn't always easy.

I wish that breeders didn't see it as a better option and that there were more folks willing and able to take them into their homes.

Last edited by Zylca; 11-06-2009 at 12:56 AM.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:03 AM
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I see both sides.



It's hard enough to find good homes for thousands of healthy, hearing puppies each year. Deaf puppies have a harder time finding a home that can accomodate their situation. I also know they wish to remove a problematic gene from the Dalmatian gene pool.



I don't think anyone wants to see puppies (or any animal for that matter!) put down, but sometimes hard decisions need to be made.



I don't necessarily like it, (and I'm not sure I could do it...) but I understand where they are coming from. It's just not a perfect world.... wish it was.




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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:22 AM
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That seems like complete crap. I have never owned a deaf dog(though my family was interested in getting a dalmation before we got our first family pet who was a cocker spaniel) but if i ha the chance i would. Its discusting specially because they are the dalmation club of america. You would think they would want to save all dalmations.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:27 AM Thread Starter
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I understand your point, Mygala. I just think, and maybe it's just what I would do, but I would take into consideration that one of the puppies(or multiples) were deaf, and take the time to find a placement for it. :/
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
That seems like complete crap. I have never owned a deaf dog(though my family was interested in getting a dalmation before we got our first family pet who was a cocker spaniel) but if i ha the chance i would. Its discusting specially because they are the dalmation club of america. You would think they would want to save all dalmations.
I was on their site, and apparently they're very, very strict with standards. If Dalmatians are born with patches, they're pretty much worthless in their eyes. Which is why, apparently, they purposely don't breed blind Dalmatians and rather a vet euthanize deaf adult Dalmatians as well as any deaf Dalmatian puppies.

Another site I was on was dalmatians.US, looking at their "101 list of things to know about Dalmatians before getting them", and I was reading all 101 pieces of information..and I came across the "Breeding" section of guidelines, to which one stated, "Be prepared to euthanize any deaf puppies". To which I gawked and stared blindly at those words, and began googling if that was really the general guideline Dalmatian breeders follow.

Unfortunately, it is. They seem to either follow one of two choices. One choice being the above, they take any deaf puppies to the vet to be euthanized, and the other option that some Dal breeders follow is they spay or neuter the puppy before handing over the registration papers so that puppy can't be used as breeding stock.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Here's a snippet from a site I recently found which doesn't advocate euthanizing deaf Dals(or deaf dogs in general), and has some really interesting information:

"In a paper that explains the genetics of deafness in dogs, Dr. George Strain says "there is no question that many people have successfully raised deaf dogs. For every story of a problem deaf dog there seems to be a story of one that was successfully raised. Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how a deaf puppy will turn out." Oddly enough, he then goes on to say that deaf puppies should then be euthanized as a matter of protocol. I am not alone in viewing this as not only hypocritical, but completely ridiculous and unethical for a supposed man of science! Ethical scientists DO NOT support views that cannot be supported by valid research data! First, he states that it is impossible to predict the outcome of a dog and then justifies death "just in case".One should note that the Dalmatian CLub of America, (DCA, a club that advocates, no, seems to require euthanasia as breeding protocol for deaf pups)funded Dr.Strain's research..."

Also:

"...When I asked him if he personally supported the euthanasia of deaf pups; he said that he did. When I asked him why spaying/neutering was not a sufficient solution to prevent genetic transfer of deafness; he refused to answer. When I asked him if he could provide any research that supported his statements regarding aggression or accidents in deaf dogs; he refused to answer. What does this all mean? It means that even the illustrious professor who was literally paid by people who want to kill deaf dogs, and admits that there are at least as many success stories as failure stories, cannot provide any proof that deaf dogs are more dangerous or involved in more accidents."

That's from here: http://www.rosiethunderpaws.com/myths.html
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 05:39 AM
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This is quite a problem in a few dog breeds, which accidentals, like lethal aussies and ridgeless rhodesians are euthanized. : (

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 08:25 AM
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This is disgusting. One particular line from their "reasoning" really struck a nerve with me:

Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how a deaf puppy will turn out."


You can remove the word DEAF from that and that statement is just as true. Disgusting they would use that as a reason to PTS puppies.

I have a deaf ferret (as most DEWs are deaf) and she trained well by her previous owner (and me) and is very friendly and loving. Deaf pets may require more work from their trainers but it doesn't mean they are worthless or "too difficult or unpredictable" to train. I honestly don't think the people breeding these dalmations really believe that either and that this is more of an excuse for them to be very elitist and proud of what they "own" and protect their "investments" rather than have a real "quality" (which in my opinion would be a measure of love, not points at a dog show) pet. Very snobbish, imo. I got into a very similar argument with a friend of mine whose family breeds rhodesian ridgebacks for profit. Much of the "ours are the best pets in the world" because we have high standards. While I understand preserving a breed by properly breeding it so it isn't lost somewhere down the line PTSing "failures" because they wont sell (which is the main reason for this, its a business venture) is low.

Ugh, I don't have time to continue typing about this right now, I have to get ready for class.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 08:34 AM
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The problem with the breeding of dogs and cats and any animal is that the most 'reputable' ones are the ones looking to better their "stock" ( I hate that word) and the breed of their choice. In doing so, a deaf, blind deformed or whatever pup is not considered good 'stock' and to have it euthanized. I seen a documentary on the American Kennel Club and it made me SICK. These people who say they love their dogs and stuff but blindly kill off the 'defects'. What people need to realiseis that it's a business and although the breeders may in fact love their studs and *****es alot of the time the pups are just the offspring for experiment in the path to create the "Perfect" dog of the breed. Needless to say, I dont agree with breeding at all in these days but I can see their point.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 10:32 AM
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Why don't breeders sell these dogs as 'pets only' and have the contract say that the owners will neuter/spay if they are so worried about their stock. I am a ridgeback owner and my dog is a ridgeless and neutered. He's is an awesome dog. I've been around the breed all my life. I chose the ridgeback for his devotion and personality...not his Ridge...i'm not interested in showing. There are plenty of people who are willing to take in these dogs that are 'not up to the standard' and raise them as family members. They say it's for the love and purity of the breed but what about the love of a "dog". It's a heartless and unnecessary thing to do!!!!!!
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:12 PM
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I agree with this as well but Im also looking at the shelters. I would NEVER go to a breeder for a dog or cat or even a rabbit because I know Im contributing to the death of the shelter animals. Even if I was looking for a 'defect' animal I would rather go support my shelter way before giving a breeer any of my money to put back into breeding,show quality ir not. This is a touchy subject and one many people will feel strongly on or against. Im simply stating what I feel which is neither correct or incorrect.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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I feel exactly as you do, Purple Hops. I don't believe in breeding these days, either. I think it's just another element our human species is trying to control, when in reality, it is the female that knows best which male is the strongest. We shouldn't be any sort of judge to that. Sure, we can look back into their family history and background, and do our best to pick out the strongest and healthiest, but there may be something that a female knows about the males she could select from, that we don't.

I honestly think breeding should be done where the female is given a choice of like...3 or 4 males, and she can pick the strongest and healthiest herself.

Back to the subject of breed standard...it's also breed standard to get a Doberman's ears cropped and their tails docked. It's also breed standard in some other breeds to actually get the dew claw removed, where, in some breeds, instead of being just a fleshy appendage, it's actually attached to the internal structure with muscle and ligaments. But it's all in the sake for breed standard... the breeder who breeds the Dalmation, or the Doberman, or the Boxer, or the Ridgeback...etc etc...closest to the breed standard, the more pride that breeder will feel in having accomplished that seemingly far off goal.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlickeringHope View Post

Back to the subject of breed standard...it's also breed standard to get a Doberman's ears cropped and their tails docked. It's also breed standard in some other breeds to actually get the dew claw removed, where, in some breeds, instead of being just a fleshy appendage, it's actually attached to the internal structure with muscle and ligaments. But it's all in the sake for breed standard... the breeder who breeds the Dalmation, or the Doberman, or the Boxer, or the Ridgeback...etc etc...closest to the breed standard, the more pride that breeder will feel in having accomplished that seemingly far off goal.
Just had to say I'm the proud owner of a bred (from my cousin's boxers - she was a gift) Boxer with an non-docked tail and non-cropped ears. She is the sweetest of dogs and I love her. Had her since I was 16 (she was my 16th birthday present from my cousin, she let me pick out a pup). I'm also not one for show dogs.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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Good for you! I honestly think if Pits and Dobes and Boxers and all the others who's breed standard is docking and cropping... I don't think their reputation would be HALF as bad as being "cold-hearted ruthless killers" if their ears were left natural. Seriously. A Pit Bull with natural ears looks absolutely adorable. Same with a Dobe, and Boxer. But when you chop the ears their reputation starts plummeting.. we as humans base so much of our opinions on what we see before us, and if the Pit, Dobe, or Boxer in front of us looks mean and aggressive because their ears are up and chopped, naturally, we're going to assume that dog is going to kill us. Or at least attack us.

I did a test with my fiance not too long ago. I showed him a picture of a Great Dane with natural ears, and a Great Dane with cropped ears. He knew the Great Dane with cropped ears instantly, but when I showed him the picture of a Great Dane with natural ears his response was, "Uhh...I dunno....some sort of Mastiff?" And his aunt and uncle have a Great Dane! And his ears aren't even chopped! But seeing a Great Dane with cropped ears is so common...now they, and Dobes, and Boxers, and Pits are virtually unrecognizable as what they are when their ears are natural.

That's what breed standard has done, :/ It's given dogs a horrible reputation, and killed deaf puppies.

Last edited by FlickeringHope; 11-06-2009 at 09:32 PM.
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