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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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ear cropping

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...o_kcra/2314296

this was on the news last night for the state of california possible new law

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 12:18 PM
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I think they're right to ban it. Isn't dog showing for bringing out the best in dogs, the natural way? I know in Europe cropping the ear is illegal, and they don't have a problem with it, so why does the USA? Dogs are beautiful with floppy or straight ears.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 01:12 PM
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hehe "giant schnouzers"

I have a dobie with floppy ears AND he is a blue, yet people still know instantly that he is a doberman. I've seen some of the european show dogs such as boxers and dobies with floppy ears and I have to say if they are well bred, they are just as beautiful.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 01:34 PM
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I can't really say to much as I have 2 Rotties with docked tails {shrug} so if I say I agree with the law than I would only be contradicting myself. European breeders just started a few years ago with the Not cropping of the ears or docking of the tails, and sure they don't have a problem with it, however there are those especially over here in Italy that when they buy a certain breed, it has to look like the pictures they have seen......


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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 01:39 PM
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I'd rather see a natural puppy any day. When I worked at the vet office, there was a little guy in there that just shook himself silly tryin' to get the dumb bandages off his ears. I disliked it before that, but now I just plain hate it. It's uncalled for.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 07:11 PM
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I'm all for natural. If you don't like the animal the way nature made it, then don't get it.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2004, 03:58 AM
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Well, I say I'm for docking but can do without cropping.

I support docking mainly because it is done when the puppy is 2-4 days old, requires no anaesthesia and really is just a simple *snip*. I worked in a vet office once, I docked tails, and I can say I have no problem with it.

Cropping, on the other hand, is SURGERY. It requires the use of anaesthesia and time for recooperation. And it is not done when the dog is 2-4 days old, but rather when the dog is 6 months, which means it can also stress the animal out.

As for cropping being illegal throughout ALL of Europe, that isn't so. It's illegal in most countries now, but has not reached new EU countries like Estonia. (And frankly, it probably won't for a very long time.) And just because the government has banned something does not mean it is supported by the citizens (like the California ferret issue, so to speak).

If docking is banned, breed standards for many, many dogs will have to change. What will you do about Australian Shepherds, who from my experience can have puppies with no tails, half-tails, and full tails? Will different tail lengths be allowed in the breed if docking is banned?

It may be purely aesthetics, but personally I HATE seeing a boxer or rottweiler's tail. And to me, a yorkie or rat terrier would not be the same without their cute little nubs.

And if the government is going to ban things like cropping and docking on dogs because they have "no medical value," then things like breast implants in humans should be banned as well. They have no medical value and sometimes can be hazardous to the person's health. But THAT is a different topic all together.



( And if it consoles anyone to know it, my hubby is against cropping and docking and that's one reason why we got a sheltie, because never in the breed history were the ears cropped or tail docked--hence no arguing between us on this topic. )

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2004, 04:23 AM
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I was told cropping was done much earlier than six months, though not as early as docking, Pihlaja. Maybe it's just some people's preferences?

I have to say that I don't feel really strongly about cropping or docking. I've never owned a dog with cropped ears, but I have owned dogs with docked tails. (A Cocker Spaniel and an Australian Shepherd. Also, Myrl the Aussie may be a natural bob-tail. His tail is longer than breeders normally have them docked, and I know some Aussies naturally have bobtails. I'm thinking and kind of hoping he's a natural bobtail.) Some dogs need their tails docked, so I don't think it should be made illegal.

I DO think it's sad that these animals are almost always (or mostly anyways) cropped or docked for looks and looks alone. If there's a good reason to do it, I'm not against it. But if it's just to make the dog look a certain way, I think it's ridiculous.

I think some breeds look weird with floppy ears, since I've always seen them with cropped ears. It would take some getting used to if suddenly Dobies, Danes, etc., had floppy ears. But I do agree they're beautiful the way they are naturally.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2004, 04:40 AM
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From my experience of working in a vet's office many years ago the age of cropping the ears was done at around 6 months old.
Roz your right in some breeds it is wierd to see them with floppy ears and long tails, because that is the way society has put the thought of what that breed should look in our minds. Now I love my Rotties and their docked tails, that is how I have always known a rottie to look, and IMO a rottie with a tail looks wierd, however it isn't the tail that makes the breed!!!!!
Jessie our orphaned rottie has her tail and she still has the rottie female attitude, so nub or tail it is all pretty much the same in the breed's personality.
I know this is about cropping of the ears, but cropping and docking are still altering the pet's look just the same.
However I must say that docking IMO is less stressful on the animal because it is done before they are 5 days old and isn't done in a manner that requires "surgery".
I've seen a Dobie getting his ears cropped and I've seen the pain he suffered afterwards and it just broke my heart, but there again brings up what people think the breed should look like because society has always been that way.


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2004, 04:46 AM
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Well, a question then, Kim... If they generally do it at 6 months, what about show dogs? Some dogs show younger. I mean, I knew a Goldie who made CH. status at 9 months. I think the owner had been showing since it was 5 months, if I recall. Now Goldies don't have their ears done but still, what about Dobie pups or something? Do their ears have to be cropped for them to begin showing? Well, not HAVE to, but they lose points for them being long, right? I think so, anyway. But maybe folks just wait until the ears are done. *wondering*

I have a concern, also, that if these procedures are made illegal the number of home jobs will rise significantly. I've seen what happens when someone thinks that they can do it themselves, at home, with no experience or direction of any kind. Of course, it's legal now and people do it at home...to save money. But I do fear the numbers of home dockings and cropping will increase, and with more doing it themselves, at home, the numbers of accidents and mess-ups rising too.

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2004, 05:50 AM
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Roz, I honestly don't know about show dogs, and the age of cropping the ears to be able to begin being shown, I only know from my experience and what our vet would do when I worked at a vet clinic.
You are right for being concerned about the possibility of many people doing the cropping and docking at home if this becomes illegal. It is frightful to think what could happen to these dogs if their owners take these matters into their hands and attempt this at home.....although you mentioned it is legal for people to do these procedures at home, and frankly that scares me!!!


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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2004, 07:42 AM
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I found a neat site that has some information on cropping, docking, and dewclaw removal.

Roz--some breeds of dogs are not entered into adult showing until 2 years of age or so. This is especially common in the very large breeds (like Irish Wolfhounds) which take more time to grow up.

According to the site above, the author believes cropping should be done from 6-9 weeks of age. At this point I believe it's a matter of opinion between the breeder/owner and the vet.

I knew ONE breeder who had been breeding aussies for over 25 years, and after 10 years of breeding and showing, she had her vet show her how to crop the tails at home and he would just supply her with the correct supplies. In a situation like this, I don't think I have a problem with home-cropping. It's being done by an experienced breeder who has had former instructions/supervision from her vet on the procedure.

Though, you and Kim are right, it's a little unnerving to think of the uneducated joe-schmoes out there who would crop and dock at home WITHOUT the proper supplies if the procedures became illegal.

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