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post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-07-2003, 09:08 PM
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I'd be tearing my hair out right about now too! The only thing I can think of at this point is - since he is so conditioned to messing in his crate- I'd remove the crate for now and try an ex-pen. It can be made with just enough room for his bed, some toys and his food/water bowls. (I'd still be schedule feeding him though, leaving him access to water freely only). If he messes on the bed you provide in the ex-pen area, I'd remove all bedding totally. I know it sounds cruel - but if that is where he learns to relieve himself - by removing the bedding you are removing his potty. If he relieves himself on the floor within the confined area it's at least easy to clean up - and he may start *getting it* - that it isn't a good idea to mess up his "den".

I read that he likes to sleep in your bed. I know that he loves it and it is nice to have a snuggle buddy in bed with you - but right now (you aren't going to like what I am going to say next....)
by letting him sleep on your level you are allowing him to be "on your level" in the pack. He needs to know that you are pack leader at all times. He does need to know clearly what you expect from him, what behaviors are acceptable and will bring praise from the leaders - and what behaviors will get him ignored. They want to know their place in the pack and will test often for reassurance!

Since he's older and not a new puppy the habits are pretty engrained. Backing it way up and starting over to recondition him may sound so frustrating - but it just may prove itself in the end.

When he his out of his confined area I'd keep him tethered to me. A 6 foot lead or rope tied to your belt. This way you aways know where he is and what he is doing- you can watch for his *cues* like sniffing, starting to squat, circling - yell *AHHHHH* or *NOOOO* in a loud deep voice, scoop him up and get him outside. If he potties outside - a treat and Praise, Praise, Praise.

Once he can be trusted and you consider him fully housebroken- I'd then start to become more lenient with things like sleeping in the bed with you - at first on occasion. Like everything.... baby steps - and a little at a time. Conditioning takes a while - and being reconditioned takes even longer.

Have you been doing basic obedience with him? Working him consistantly in this area may be a huge help. It will give him purpose, a desire to please and reinforce you and your wife as pack leaders.

I know how patient you've been and that this is really frustrating for you! I hope you find that magic bullet!

I've trained some pretty hard headed frustrating dogs- sometimes it just takes outsmarting them - giving them the opportunity to succeed until it becomes a good habit and second nature.

Good Luck!! Keep us posted- I'd like to know how he's doing!

Deja

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post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-2003, 03:01 PM
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Hi Tbird
Deja has given you some great advice. I have 3 dogs, 2 are dachshunds actually! If I am reading correctly, this is a petstore dog that was older? Ok.. heres what I have learned. I got Kahlua my blk tan doxie, from a friend, and he was trained to go outside since he was little, and we crate trained him and he was great, never once pooped in there the whole time. I thought this is great, he learned so fast!!!!! Then, we were clueless about petstore puppies and how they could come from puppy mills, the health issues,etc Well unfortunatley we learned the hard way with our Jasmine. She is the cutest little girl, a papillon. We had problems with her since the beginning, we were at the vet all the time. And most of the time this was why.. they kept telling me over and over it was Colitis, like you had with Buddy. She was terrible with potty training, she would go in her cage all the time no matter what schedule we had with her, and would lay in it and litterally not care!!! I learned that's b/c she was a petstore dog and they are raised that way and thats the only way they know to go potty. We tried it all, making the cage smaller, praising her outside when she went, you name it, and she just wouldn't get it. I couldn't understand it, thats all they kept saying, colitis. Her stools were never normal, and we rushed once to the emergency vet b.c there was blood in it. What do they tell me ..colitis! We were thinking too that she was sick alot and thats why she would go in the cage. They thought she had kidney problems, she had tests done all the time, but after a trip to the specialist and a couple $1000 later, they tell me she has a food allergy! This has been the problem the whole time, I couldn't believe they were telling me this. I was sooo thankful it wasnt a kidney problem or anything serious, but I didn't understand thats what it had been the whole time, her allergic to that food!! I fed them all science diet, and was told by 1 vet(i took her to 2) to keep her on the food and NOT change b.c we didn't want to go to the protien diet yet and wanted to see how her BUN levels stayed with the same food as we started(didn't know if there was kidney problems at the time) and so they said keep her on it. If only I had known about how crappy this food really was I would never have fed her it and saved her alot of anguish. So I read up on foods and switched to an all natural diet that is so much better for cats and dogs, it doesn't have all those gross by products and preservatives in it. Jasmine has been a different dog since then!!!!!! Her stools have been totally normal, and we aren't there yet(and she almost 1 1/2), but since her tummy was adjusting to this food better, she was better at controlling all the times she had to go poop and has learned to kindof go on a schedule. Have you thought about changing the food? This could be part of the issue, I would give it a try. The food I feed mine are Solid gold. The other great ones out there are Innova, Flint River Ranch and Natural Balance. Alot of people also feed their dogs a raw diet.
To me Buddy seems alot like Jasmine, we were so frustrated and couldn't understand why she just didn't get it. Also, it could be some behavorial issues as well, have you thought about signing Buddy up for a obdience class, or talk to a pet behavoralist? We just signed Jasmine up last week, she gave some tips on house training as well. That could be good too. I know how frustrating it is, believe me!!! Deja gave some great advice too. And yes as bad as it sounds, sometimes the blanket or bed has to come out, we learned that. She hides it in there and she would be so good, and I'd give her a new bed and oopps there we go again, an accident! I have a 3rd dog,Penny a piebald dachshund. Before we knew about puppymills and petstores, we got her from another petstore a few months after Jasmine, spur of the moment, and I admit it was harder to teach her too, but she learned ALOT quicker than Jasmine.
Dachshunds are very smart and quick at learning. They can be stubborn too,lol. Kahlua just learned one day "ok I gotta go, so I wait by the door and whine and mommy will know.."! Now how do I get the other 2 to learn that lol. And let me guess, you take him out and he screws around sniffing ever blade of grasss, taking their good ol time?? Yup, its a dachshund thing.LOL
Different dogs have to go at different time and amounts, etc. My dachshunds normally only have a bowel movement 2-3 times a day., where as Jasmine is more like 4, but smaller amounts if that sounds right. Different bodies and statures. Are you on a set feeding schedule, how many times a day do they eat?I REALLY think maybe a change in diet and talking with a dog trainer/behavoralist could really help you. Hope I could help!!!

~* Jackie *~

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Last edited by kittygurl823; 08-14-2003 at 03:04 PM.
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post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-2003, 03:44 PM
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Jackie-
Wow- fantastic advice!! I am so glad you finally got the answer to your problems with your baby! Holy cow - sounds like they really put you through the wringer! I am so glad Kaluah is doing better now.

It never occured to me that the *colitis* (a catch-all word that they use to diagnose any intestinal distress that is vague with no concrete pathological basis-ugh!) might be caused by the food!

I recently changed my dogs from IAMS (had fed it for years ) to Wellness (an all natural human grade). I started doing research and reading and realized that it makes sense to feed them a better diet!
The difference is totally amazing. Within a few short weeks I was seeing changes. My dogs smell *sweet* now - no doggie odor or bad breath- their coats look gorgeous - healthy shiny and their skin looks really great. (I have a Golden Retriever who tends to get flakey skin- eww) No more flakes or dandruff... they are just looking great. Their stools are firm and easy to clean up from the yard too. Though, I do notice that the stools are larger? I think it may have to do with the fiber content in this new food?

Anyway - adding fiber to any diet (human or dog) is good for *colitis*. I always reccomend boiled brown rice and a few tablespoons of canned pumpkin (not pie filling- just pumpkin),
to firm up loose stools.

Anyway- hope things continue to go well for you and your babies!!

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post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-2003, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. So far since I posted that Buddy has done GREAT!!! We haven't changed anything.. I think all of a sudden he just got it.. Well at least we think he's got it. He hasn't gone in the cage or in the house since Thursday or Friday (8/7 or 8/8). He has been doing great when I take him out and his stools have been normal and 1-3 times a day.. Before this week it was sniffing for 5-15 minutes and not doing anything.. Now he goes right out and GOES!! It's been awesome.. I don't want to jinx it though.. I'm scared because were going on vacation (out of town) tomorrow and leaving him with my parents for 9 days.. Hopefully he won't get all nervous and go backwards again..

Thanks for everyone's advice and support!!

Romans 10:9
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post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-2003, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. So far since I posted that Buddy has done GREAT!!! We haven't changed anything.. I think all of a sudden he just got it.. Well at least we think he's got it. He hasn't gone in the cage or in the house since Thursday or Friday (8/7 or 8/8). He has been doing great when I take him out and his stools have been normal and 1-3 times a day.. Before this week it was sniffing for 5-15 minutes and not doing anything.. Now he goes right out and GOES!! It's been awesome.. I don't want to jinx it though.. I'm scared because were going on vacation (out of town) tomorrow and leaving him with my parents for 9 days.. Hopefully he won't get all nervous and go backwards again..

Thanks for everyone's advice and support!!

Romans 10:9
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post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-2003, 05:00 PM
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That is great news!! Yay Buddy!
I'm so glad that things are going in the right direction for you.
I'll keep my figers crossed that he doesn't get nervous and slip back while you are on vacation...

Have a great trip!

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post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-2003, 08:42 PM
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Deja
Thanks! It has been a very rough year for Jasmine. (I think you meant Jasmine when you said Kahlua, but thats OK, I have such a zoo I mix them up myself, LOL) She has gone through sooo much. I just like to tell everyone my story to be aware of everything, things I'd never even thought of.
Yes, I forgot to mention Wellness, great food! Am just putting the cats on it right now, they love it! The dogs just adjusted so well to Solid Gold, while cats weren't so easy, lol. They hated that and California Nat. I rotate them between Natural Balance and Wellness.
Jasmine is doing so great on this food, and listening to Tbird's story there sounded like alot of similarities. I've noticed the stools alot firmer( i know this is such a nice conversation,lol) on this new food, and their coats are shiny and they smell better too.
Thats wonderful Buddy is doing so much better! I hope he stays on a good track while you are away on vacation! Have a great time!

~* Jackie *~

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post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 12:05 AM
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Exclamation i think i can help

ok, my yorkie is 10 months old and is 80% housetrained. it has been a long road. she is veeery thickheaded so let me tell you how i got this far:
1. always verbally punish the dog if he goes inside. don't do anything to him physically, but let him know you are angry.
2. take the poop or pee soaked paper towel outside to the area you want him to go. leave it there. show him what you are doing.
3. give him praise and a treat RIGHT after he goes. you have 3 seconds, tops, to praise and treat him after he goes. otherwise, he doesn't know why you are so happy.
4. keep him in a very small crate when you are gone.
5. when you are there, keep him in a very small area, like a baby playpen. i know this seems small, but he needs to earn his freedom. plus, you can keep a close eye on him.
6. take him out as much as you can. if you are home, take him out every 30 - 45 min and give him about 10 min each time. the best times to take him out are right after he wakes up, eats, or drinks.

i don't know if you already know this, but my pottytraining has been really hard too. the thing that made a big difference that most people don't think about is #3. i was giving penny her treat in the house and she didn't understand what the treat was for. now i give it to her RIGHT after, and she has improved sooo much.

btw- my dog makes lots of progress and then won't go outside for 2 days, then does well again. who knows?? =)
i hope i can help. sorry this post was so long.

-Jane
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