The vegan dog, anyone? - Paw Talk - Pet Forums
Dogs Wagging tails, wet noses, unconditional love, and everything else that goes along with canines!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
canis lupus familiaris
 
Blacksheep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 552
 
The vegan dog, anyone?

Yeah we're thinking sometime between point A and a couple years ago, Spyro developed a meat allergy. The raw feeding cleared it up for a bit, but now its back likely because he is also being exposed to a million other allergens. I have decided to take the plunge and make him vegetarian.

Problem is I have found very little vegetarian foods on the market (I learned all about why in school so I don't blame them) and even less help online. I found a recipe for homemade stew stuff but its by PETA...which is likely not made by an RVT specializing in nutrition or a DVM. This has been a struggle. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[B]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Spyro
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Loki
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Luna
Blacksheep is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 11:24 AM
Betta Bomb
 
Purple-Hops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SJ Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Posts: 5,202
Blog Entries: 5
  
Purple-Hops is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 12:42 PM
is a little "special"
 
Jess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern-ish Minnesota
Age: 25
Posts: 4,131
 
I know that there are some vegetarian prescription foods that you can get for them. My dog is on Royal Canin prescription food for his liver problems that he has been having (But he has been getting better!), and that brand makes a vegetarian food as well:

http://www.nationalpetpharmacy.com/p...a-Dry-Dog-Food



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear.They are not brethen, they are not underlings; they are other nations caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth."
Jess is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 06:25 PM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
I hope this doesn't sound rude but I don't think he has a "meat allergy". That would be very, very, very rare for a carnivore! What protein sources have you tried and how do you know it's the food? Could it be environmental?

Honestly, no vegetarian diet is really great for a dog but a vegan diet would be flat-out dangerous. So don't go vegan, go vegetarian if anything. Again, though, even dogs with tons of food allergies can usually eat certain meats.

Maybe a fish diet would work? Fish shouldn't really "count", you know?

Your best bet would be to look into homecooked diets, there's a good forum for that on Dogster. I wouldn't try any kibbles, those have so many allergens that it would be tough to see if they helped or not.

Again, though, I want to emphasize that a dog is extremely unlikely to be "allergic" to all meat, it's more likely specific types or categories (poultry, for example). Or an allergy that has nothing to do with food, which was my first thought when you mentioned raw clearing it up for a little while...if he was allergic to all meat, he wouldn't have cleared up like that. Michelle on here has a dog with a poultry allergy, it doesn't just randomly go away and results in nearly deadly reactions. That doesn't sound like what's going on with your pup.




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
canis lupus familiaris
 
Blacksheep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 552
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasami View Post
I hope this doesn't sound rude but I don't think he has a "meat allergy". That would be very, very, very rare for a carnivore! What protein sources have you tried and how do you know it's the food? Could it be environmental?

Honestly, no vegetarian diet is really great for a dog but a vegan diet would be flat-out dangerous. So don't go vegan, go vegetarian if anything. Again, though, even dogs with tons of food allergies can usually eat certain meats.

Maybe a fish diet would work? Fish shouldn't really "count", you know?

Your best bet would be to look into homecooked diets, there's a good forum for that on Dogster. I wouldn't try any kibbles, those have so many allergens that it would be tough to see if they helped or not.

Again, though, I want to emphasize that a dog is extremely unlikely to be "allergic" to all meat, it's more likely specific types or categories (poultry, for example). Or an allergy that has nothing to do with food, which was my first thought when you mentioned raw clearing it up for a little while...if he was allergic to all meat, he wouldn't have cleared up like that. Michelle on here has a dog with a poultry allergy, it doesn't just randomly go away and results in nearly deadly reactions. That doesn't sound like what's going on with your pup.
I figured that too. He isn't dead by any means but yes he itches constantly. Once he started puking and we didn't have ground beef and just fed him rice for a couple of days...he did fine. I really really REALLY am not into the vegan dog thing at all. I mean...now its certain...no argument and in textbook that dogs are carnivores lol.

The only thing I could even think of is for whatever reason he has a sensitivity to the packaging that the meat is touching? Think thats a possibility?

[B]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Spyro
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Loki
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Luna
Blacksheep is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2012, 12:12 AM
Resident Aquarium Nerd
 
Sasami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28
Posts: 9,930
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksheep View Post
I figured that too. He isn't dead by any means but yes he itches constantly. Once he started puking and we didn't have ground beef and just fed him rice for a couple of days...he did fine. I really really REALLY am not into the vegan dog thing at all. I mean...now its certain...no argument and in textbook that dogs are carnivores lol.

The only thing I could even think of is for whatever reason he has a sensitivity to the packaging that the meat is touching? Think thats a possibility?
When you did raw, did you always feed a bunch of meats? It might be worth picking one (something novel, like fresh sardines, rabbit, duck, etc.) and sticking with it for several weeks to see what happens. What meats did you used to feed? Chicken tends to be the biggest cause of allergies (honestly, it's probably more the additives than the chicken for a lot of dogs). Where did you get the meat and did you check the sodium content? Some meat has a saline solution added, this will cause itchiness and/or puking in many dogs. Your mention of ground beef makes me wonder if it's meat from a grocery store that does that. Some brands do, some don't.

Has the vet tried prescribing any allergy medications? It didn't sound (from your post) that environmental allergies have been ruled out yet.

I've never heard of something like that but anything's possible. My hunch is that it's environmental or otherwise totally unrelated to the food OR it's a meat but not meat in general (so something that was part of his diet but he didn't get it every meal). He wouldn't have done fine sometimes on a meat-based diet if it was a true allergic reaction. I have a dog who is allergic to wheat...a single piece of bread is enough to make her sick for days. It's never a random thing, she always gets the same reaction whenever she has something with wheat. Someone I know on another forum has a dog with a chicken allergy. ANY time he gets chicken, he reacts (rashes, constant itching, teary eyes), no matter the source. If your pup isn't reacting every time, something odd is going on.

It might help to start recording everything he eats (including treats), when he has a reaction, and what he did that day. A pattern is bound to emerge eventually. My sister's dog gets allergic reactions whenever there's a lot of pollen, for example. I fostered a dog who had allergic reactions after running around outside (from the grass). My senior dog who recently passed away couldn't tolerate turkey at all...no idea why but it turned out that every time she got sick it was the day after eating turkey.




~Stephanie

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Sasami is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 05:46 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,212
  
I agree with Stephanie. I wouldn't feed a vegetarian or vegan diet to a dog. I would think it would be highly unlikely that your dog is allergic to all types of meat.

My dog, Kitsune, has both environmental allergies and food allergies. He can't eat poultry, like Stephanie mentioned. Even a tiny bit of chicken is enough to make him very sick. He gets hives all over his body, he swells up, throws up, it's pretty drastic. He almost died once after eating a piece of raw chicken, due to his throat swelling and almost completely closing off. Luckily one of our vets is literally a 2 minute walk from our house so I was able to get him treated very quickly when his symptoms started.

Remember that kibble, even vegan kibbles, contain a lot more ingredients that could all serve as potential allergy triggers. My dogs allergies where one of the main reasons why I switched him to raw. It's much easier for me to know exactly what he's eating.

If you think your dog has food allergies, I always tell people that I think the most important thing is to try to find out what they are actually allergic too. Knowing my dog cannot eat poultry makes it easier for me to check everything I feed him, treats included, to make sure I'm not giving him something that he could react too.

Have you looked into trying an elimination diet? You should be able to find a lot of info on how to do it online.

Try to figure out exactly what Spyro is allergic too. If you don't, how will you know what foods to avoid? If he is allergic to one or a few types of meat, your life will be much easier if you can figure that out. It's not always easy, but it's worth it. Just switching him to a vegan diet and not worrying about finding what exactly is bothering him I wouldn't think would be the healthiest course of action. How would you know what types of treats he can and can't have, etc. Just never giving him any meat again IMO isn't really fair to him and probably isn't what's healthiest either.

Look into where you get your meat too. Could be maybe be reacting to something that's being added to all the meat at the particular store you use? Maybe try getting meat from other stores or online or something and see if that changes things any.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dragonrain is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-27-2012, 09:19 AM
Newborn Pup
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 24
 
This is a very bad idea, dogs need their meat and protien, try feeding raw instead.
vnairp11 is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 06:57 AM
Adolescent Pup
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 206
 
My friends dog has ONLY eat fish. And he's 12 years old now. So dogs can live too a ripe old age with not eating a scrap off meat.
jeff jey is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 02:36 PM
is a little "special"
 
Jess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern-ish Minnesota
Age: 25
Posts: 4,131
 
Fish is meat...?

If someone is trying to put their dog on a vegetarian diet, that means no fish, poultry or anything. I'm not a fan of vegan or vegetarian diets for dogs (Unless it's for medical reasons... I hate it when vegetarian/vegan people feel that they need to make their dogs vegan too!). Sure, they might be able to survive a vegetarian/vegan diet, but that doesn't mean it's good for them!



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear.They are not brethen, they are not underlings; they are other nations caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth."
Jess is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 10:32 PM
Paw-Talk Lifer
 
Kendalle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 5,083
  
i'm also not sure that fish only is a good idea either. Some fish actually has high levels of mercury as well which can be an issue at least for humans. And unless you can go fishing all the time, costly as well.

[/CENTER]

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kendalle is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-30-2012, 11:35 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,212
  
Fish is meat.

And just because an animal can survive off a certain diet, doesn't mean it's optimal. Humans can survive by eating only fast food, but that doesn't make it the best diet.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dragonrain is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 02:21 AM
Movin' Up in the Pack
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 802
 
Maybe there is certain level of meat that triggers to allergy, hope you find a good vet that is expert on dog allergy and diet.

"Play with me and keep me busy! You have your work, your entertainment, and friends. I only have you! " - Unknown

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Visit -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- for fun and tips for pets!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
wishbone is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-07-2012, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
canis lupus familiaris
 
Blacksheep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 552
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasami View Post
When you did raw, did you always feed a bunch of meats? It might be worth picking one (something novel, like fresh sardines, rabbit, duck, etc.) and sticking with it for several weeks to see what happens. What meats did you used to feed? Chicken tends to be the biggest cause of allergies (honestly, it's probably more the additives than the chicken for a lot of dogs). Where did you get the meat and did you check the sodium content? Some meat has a saline solution added, this will cause itchiness and/or puking in many dogs. Your mention of ground beef makes me wonder if it's meat from a grocery store that does that. Some brands do, some don't.

Has the vet tried prescribing any allergy medications? It didn't sound (from your post) that environmental allergies have been ruled out yet.

I've never heard of something like that but anything's possible. My hunch is that it's environmental or otherwise totally unrelated to the food OR it's a meat but not meat in general (so something that was part of his diet but he didn't get it every meal). He wouldn't have done fine sometimes on a meat-based diet if it was a true allergic reaction. I have a dog who is allergic to wheat...a single piece of bread is enough to make her sick for days. It's never a random thing, she always gets the same reaction whenever she has something with wheat. Someone I know on another forum has a dog with a chicken allergy. ANY time he gets chicken, he reacts (rashes, constant itching, teary eyes), no matter the source. If your pup isn't reacting every time, something odd is going on.

It might help to start recording everything he eats (including treats), when he has a reaction, and what he did that day. A pattern is bound to emerge eventually. My sister's dog gets allergic reactions whenever there's a lot of pollen, for example. I fostered a dog who had allergic reactions after running around outside (from the grass). My senior dog who recently passed away couldn't tolerate turkey at all...no idea why but it turned out that every time she got sick it was the day after eating turkey.
We did find the problem. It was something dealing with packaging. He knocked over the trash a couple of times (usually after we'd have a meaty dinner) and would lick the tray things. Shortly after, he'd itch his mouth.

Right now everyone is on kibble till I can afford to order from the co-op. My orders are strange and nobody wants to split with me so gonna rent a freezer and do that. Sucks because Loki is allergic to grain so its not like I'm saving money feeding kibs.

[B]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Spyro
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Loki
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Luna
Blacksheep is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-07-2012, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
canis lupus familiaris
 
Blacksheep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 552
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonrain View Post
Fish is meat.

And just because an animal can survive off a certain diet, doesn't mean it's optimal. Humans can survive by eating only fast food, but that doesn't make it the best diet.
Someone went on about how healthy her dog was eating Ol Roy. I told her about that one girl that only ate chicken nuggets that had nice hair and wasn't fat. Yeah she was dying but it didn't look it lol.

[B]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Spyro
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Loki
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Luna
Blacksheep is offline  
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome