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View Poll Results: Would you move to another state where your pets are legal if they became illegal?
Yes 106 78.52%
No 29 21.48%
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post #1 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-25-2004, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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Angry Exotic Animal Bans...

I have sent this letter I created to some exotic vets, and [email protected]. Please reply to this post with any emails concerning the matter of banning exotic pets. This is not right, and cannot happen any longer as it is in the U.S. and Canada...Please write a letter yourself also...My letter can be cross-posted as long as my name and such is included... Well here it is:

"
Hello,

My name is Corina Van Camp. I am living in New York State. I own chinchillas and plan on getting hedgehogs, both of them being exotic animals. I hear of the government banning exotic animals in many locations, recently in both the United States and Canada. These animals are not only our pets, but our babies! They are part of the family. We love them very much, and take care of them, and their needs. I do not support this act. We should not be punished for the acts of irresponsible animal owners that neglect or abuse their pets. Our pets should not be punished either. I also know that if you were to ban exotic animals in this state, I would be moving to another state, and bringing my animals with me. Not all animals carry diseases and such, and eventually we are going to have no pets at all, not even dogs or cats. Animals are the ones who comfort people and listen to you when humans don't. They are the ones with opening ears and hearts. There are many people that are worried about this matter, and do not want this happening. Just of my friends, close ones at that; they own:

Chinchillas

Hedgehogs

Prairie Dogs

Sugar Gliders

Flying Squirrels

etc. All being exotics.

I also plan on being a vet in the next years to come, if you ban exotic pets how many people will be out of jobs? Maybe not many, but they do need to support their family, and themselves. They love their jobs too, and some of them owning exotic animals themselves. I am not only being a vet, but specializing in exotic animals. Also there are many pet stores that sell chinchillas, and hedgehogs, not that this is always a good thing, but they will be having less, and less animals to support their business'. Some exotic animals are also used in educational ways. You do not want to take away children's education...do you? Also animals possibly able to catch and carry the disease monkey pox besides prairie dogs that aren't exotics, are rabbits, rats, etc. Your not trying to ban these animals, or caring to. You shouldn't need to either, but you shouldn't be trying to ban exotics. All of these animals are very important to many.

Thank you for listening, and I am looking forward to your reply concerning this matter. I am not just representing myself, and my animals, but many other people too, and all the people that think about writing a letter, but never do.

-Corina"

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post #2 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-26-2004, 03:15 PM
 
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It is always nice to see someone step up and do what they can to try and right a wrong. Good luck on your quest, and please let me know what kind of responses you get from those you send this letter to.
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post #3 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-26-2004, 03:29 PM
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The only banned animals on NY's list are Dangerous Exotic Animals. You can read the proposal here: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A09988&sh=t

8. "DANGEROUS EXOTIC ANIMAL" MEANS ANY MEMBER OF THE FOLLOWING FAMI-
26 LIES, INCLUDING HYBRIDS THEREOF, WHICH DUE TO THEIR INHERENT NATURE, MAY
27 BE CONSIDERED DANGEROUS TO HUMANS, AND FURTHER DEFINED AS FOLLOWS:
28 (A) CLASS MAMMALIA
29 (1) ORDER ARTIODACTYLA (HIPPOPOTAMUSES, GIRAFFES, CAMELS, DEER, BUT
30 NOT CATTLE, SWINE, SHEEP OR GOATS)
31 (2) ORDER CARNIVORA
32 (I) FAMILY FELIDAE (LIONS, TIGERS, COUGARS, LEOPARDS, OCELOTS,
33 SERVALS, BUT NOT DOMESTIC CATS OR FERAL CATS WHICH SHALL MEAN DOMESTI-
34 CATED CATS WHICH WERE FORMERLY OWNED AND HAVE BEEN ABANDONED AND ARE NO
35 LONGER SOCIALIZED, AS WELL AS THE OFFSPRING OF SUCH CATS)
36 (II) FAMILY CANIDAE (WOLVES, COYOTES, FOXES, JACKALS, BUT NOT DOMESTI-
37 CATED DOGS)
38 (III) FAMILY URSIDAE (BEARS)
39 (IV) FAMILY MUSTELIDAE (WEASELS, SKUNKS, MARTIN, MINKS, BUT NOT
40 FERRETS)
41 (V) FAMILY PROCYONIDAE (RACCOONS, COATIS)
42 (VI) FAMILY HYAENIDAE (HYENAS)
43 (VII) FAMILY VIVERRIDAE (CIVETS, GENETS, MONGOOSES, BINTURONGS)
44 (3) ORDER EDENTATIA (ANTEATERS, ARMIDILLOS, SLOTHS)
45 (4) ORDER MARSUPIALIA (OPPOSSUMS, KANGAROOS, WALLABIES)
46 (5) ORDER PERISSODACTYLA (RHINOCEROS, TAPIRS, BUT NOT HORSES, DONKEYS
47 OR MULES)
48 (6) ORDER PRIMATES (LEMURS, MONKEYS, CHIMPANZEES, GORILLAS)
49 (7) ORDER PROBOSCIDAE (ELEPHANTS)
50 (8) ORDER RODENTIA (SQUIRRELS, PRAIRIE DOGS, BEAVERS, PORCUPINES,
51 GAMBIEN RATS, BUT NOT GUINEA PIGS, RATS, MICE, GERBILS OR HAMSTERS)
52 (B) CLASS REPTILIA
53 (1) ORDER SQUAMATA
54 (I) FAMILY VARANIDAE (ONLY WATER MONITORS AND CROCODILE MONITORS)
55 (II) FAMILY IGUANAIDAE (ONLY GREEN IGUANAS AND ROCK IGUANAS)

A. 9988--B 3

1 (III) FAMILY BOIDAE (ALL SPECIES WHOSE ADULT LENGTH CAN EXCEED EIGHT
2 FEET IN LENGTH)
3 (IV)FAMILY COLUBRIDAE (ONLY BOOMSLANGS AND AFRICAN TWIG SNAKES)
4 (V) FAMILY ELAPIDAE
5 (VI) FAMILY NACTRICIDAE (ONLY KEELBACK SNAKES)
6 (VII) FAMILY VIPERIDAE
7 (2) ORDER CROCODILIA.

Stephanie

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post #4 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-26-2004, 04:11 PM
 
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No rhinos? What's going on there?
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post #5 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-26-2004, 08:14 PM
 
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There is always someone trying to ban exotics (reptiles, too ) ... Unfortunately, most of the information used in this endeavor is usually biased and wrong .. it is up to the exotic owners, like yourself, to get heard and stand up for your rights.

Ignorance can be a terrible thing if it goes unhindered.

Bravo.
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post #6 of 99 (permalink) Old 04-27-2004, 01:39 AM
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The "only" animals? That list is absurd. They tried to suggest the same list here in Austin and it got shot down pretty quickly, didn't even make it to city counsil. NYC is a whole different ball of wax with that many people crammed together in such a small area, but all snakes over 2 feet? That cuts out pretty much everything, including some of the calmest and best pet snakes out there. And most people wouldn't know a keelback snake if it bit them in the butt. Plus, numerous species in colubridae are venomous - yet not mentioned. Then, they ban the water monitor, but not the nile monitor, or the komodo... or numerous other large lizard species which are known to be potentially dangerous. Not to mention, numerous family/genus in the list are incorrect and there are typos. Laws like that are utterly silly and refuse to take into consideration something as simple as scientific discovery or advancement - or probably just weren't researched well enough in the first place.

Careful, squirrels are dangerous animals.

Rav
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post #7 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-07-2004, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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I own chinchillas and bearded dragons, and this year I'm getting hedgehogs. i don't think they should ban any exotics. That list is huge!!
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post #8 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-07-2004, 06:22 PM
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I totally understand your position and I applaud you for doing what you can to stand up for what you believe is right.

I had to vote NO. I don't own anything considered very exotic - I have 2 parrots, 3 dogs and 3 cats. I should tell you why I did vote no though.

I voted No because I have a family to consider. We live and work in the NYC metro area. I have children in one of the best school districts in the country. My children and family have to come first, always. We live where the work is, work is where the money comes from to live...

I'd do anything for my animals and have always lived up to my word, but if it came down to it, I'm being totally honest here- my kids would have to come first...

When I look at that list the first thing that came to my mind was the man in a NYC subsidised housing apartment who was keeping a Lion and an alligator - among other potentially dangerous animals it was later found out. Although laws may not always make rational sense to people who are educated and dedicated enough to actually care for exotics - most people aren't educated and have no clue. They not only put the animal in harms way through improper care and non-existant medical treatment, they pose a danger to the immediate population.





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post #9 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-07-2004, 06:29 PM
 
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a macaws exotic isnt it??? i think it is, i have one hes my sweet little baby, but the thing is , he dosent live with me... (long story) anywho im going to see him tomorrow woot!
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post #10 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-07-2004, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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I understand that. I don't have any children as I am only 13 years old, I do have a sister, mom, and dad here along with my other relatives and friends. We are only in the city though and in one of the worst neighborhoods. My mom has been planning on moving to the country for a while. We (my sister, and I) have gone to a catholic school our whole lives and still do, but it's still not the best.) My mom would let me move to Virginia, and I know someone that lives there and would let me and my animals stay with them. My mom would might of even move there too.
~Corina
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post #11 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 07:06 PM
 
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I agree, Deja. A lot of exotics -- like lions and alligators -- have no business being in big cities. Not only can they be dangerous when not cared for properly but it is wrong to house something like that in an environment totally unsuited for them.

However, exotic animal bans are often based on misinformation. They are also very generalized so a lot of decent pets get banned as well. Most times, professionals aren't consulted and research isn't even done. So, it is left up to the owners to petition the laws -- and most times the system doesn't even care what the pet owners think: There aren't enough exotic owners out there to make a difference so even if you know your stuff you are still fighting a loosing battle. It is sad, really.
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post #12 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 07:28 PM
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A lot of those animals that were on that list should not be allowed to be pets anyway....I mean seriously, do you think a kangaroo is going to be happy living in someone's backyard?
The praire dog situation is a little different though....they've allowed them into peoples homes, if they want them to be banned it shouldn't mean that existing owners should have to get rid of them imo.
I also don't think that any of you realise just how lucky you are with the different types of pets you are allowed to own. Sugar gliders are a great example...they are native to my country and I have never seen a real one, we are not allowed to have them as pets, and honestly I'm not sure if I agree on that one. From what I have read they take a huge repsonsibility and not everyone out there owning sugar gliders will be providing them with their proper environmental needs.
Anyway I'm getting off track here...I own one dog, two rabbits and currently one mouse. none of my pets are considered exotics here either and it would depend on many different circumstances as to whether I'd move or not. Right now I'd have to say no...we are building ourselves a life for success and I'm with Deja, you live where the work is. don't get me wrong though it would break my heart to see any of my babies go. If we weren't tied with great oppurtunities like we are now then yes i would move cause I would have nothing to lose. i don't have children yet but we are working towards giving our children the best life we possibly can so moving right now would not be the greatest thing for us to do.

Good luck in your quest to stop the banning...just fight for the ones that need fighting for, lions tigers and bears don't belong in domestic situations!

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post #13 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-23-2004, 02:01 AM
 
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[QUOTE=RSbunny]A lot of those animals that were on that list should not be allowed to be pets anyway....I mean seriously, do you think a kangaroo is going to be happy living in someone's backyard?

I also don't think that any of you realise just how lucky you are with the different types of pets you are allowed to own. Sugar gliders are a great example...they are native to my country and I have never seen a real one, we are not allowed to have them as pets, and honestly I'm not sure if I agree on that one. From what I have read they take a huge repsonsibility and not everyone out there owning sugar gliders will be providing them with their proper environmental needs.
QUOTE]

Just because Kangaroos are kept in captive situations, doesn't nessacerily imply that they're being thrown in a standard backyard.

Sugar Gliders definetly take work, but they're needs aren't anything a responsible person can provide.
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post #14 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-23-2004, 02:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfomatic
However, exotic animal bans are often based on misinformation. They are also very generalized so a lot of decent pets get banned as well. Most times, professionals aren't consulted and research isn't even done. So, it is left up to the owners to petition the laws -- and most times the system doesn't even care what the pet owners think: There aren't enough exotic owners out there to make a difference so even if you know your stuff you are still fighting a loosing battle. It is sad, really.
Precisely. The information is often based on outdated data, or they just haven't looked into things specifically. Like boids no larger than 2 feet?! There are numers pythons and boas that get 2-6 feet but their girth is much to small to be a threat to anyone. I remember when NYC banned exotics, the law was so ridiculous they had taxonomic errors on the bill!!! Everyone thought it was a joke the original bill so ignorant and obviously not researched.

Lets pick apart some of those "dangerous" animal groups...


32 (I) FAMILY FELIDAE (LIONS, TIGERS, COUGARS, LEOPARDS, OCELOTS,
33 SERVALS, BUT NOT DOMESTIC CATS OR FERAL CATS WHICH SHALL MEAN DOMESTI-
34 CATED CATS WHICH WERE FORMERLY OWNED AND HAVE BEEN ABANDONED AND ARE NO
35 LONGER SOCIALIZED, AS WELL AS THE OFFSPRING OF SUCH CATS)

Yeah, tigers are dangerous. Bengal Cats and Chausies are not. They're hybrid cats with just a sliver of wild cat blood in them.

36 (II) FAMILY CANIDAE (WOLVES, COYOTES, FOXES, JACKALS, BUT NOT DOMESTI-37 CATED DOGS)

Again, wolves can be dangerous. I promise you my Fennec Fox, however, was no more threatening than a ferret. They only get to be three pounds!!

41 (V) FAMILY PROCYONIDAE (RACCOONS, COATIS)

Coatis are a handful, ringtails make fine pets.


43 (VII) FAMILY VIVERRIDAE (CIVETS, GENETS, MONGOOSES, BINTURONGS)

Genets fall into the category I just created for fennecs and ringtails. I wonder if whoever wrote the bill even knows what a genet is?

44 (3) ORDER EDENTATIA (ANTEATERS, ARMIDILLOS, SLOTHS)

Armadillos are boring, yes. Dangerous? I don't think so.

45 (4) ORDER MARSUPIALIA (OPPOSSUMS, KANGAROOS, WALLABIES)

Dama wallabies only get to be several pounds. Terrifying!


50 (8) ORDER RODENTIA (SQUIRRELS, PRAIRIE DOGS, BEAVERS, PORCUPINES,
51 GAMBIEN RATS, BUT NOT GUINEA PIGS, RATS, MICE, GERBILS OR HAMSTERS)

What does MICE mean? Domesticated fancy mice, or all mice. Zebra mice, pgymy mice, spiny mice are definetly not dangerous. I can possibly see the danger in a grey squirrel, but a flying squirrel could do little damage if it wanted to!
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post #15 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-23-2004, 02:24 AM
 
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I tried to post this using a quote, but I'm new to the board and may've screwed something up. If I post the same basic thing twice, I apologize.

All the animals in that list are NOT dangerous. The list is a broad and overexagerated blanket law. The original proposal for NYC was so absurd there were taxonomic errors in it! People thought it was a joke because the initial proposed ban was put together so poorly. If they don't even know what it is, how do they know if it thrives in captivity? If they ban whole groups of animals, what about the members of the group that do fine in captivity?

32 (I) FAMILY FELIDAE (LIONS, TIGERS, COUGARS, LEOPARDS, OCELOTS,
33 SERVALS, BUT NOT DOMESTIC CATS OR FERAL CATS WHICH SHALL MEAN DOMESTI-
34 CATED CATS WHICH WERE FORMERLY OWNED AND HAVE BEEN ABANDONED AND ARE NO
35 LONGER SOCIALIZED, AS WELL AS THE OFFSPRING OF SUCH CATS)

Yeah, Tigers are dangerous and if you want to keep one in Texas you have to get proper licensing and have your facility inspected. This law would also ban Chausie's and Bengal cats. Neither of these hybrid cats are dangerous at all.

36 (II) FAMILY CANIDAE (WOLVES, COYOTES, FOXES, JACKALS, BUT NOT DOMESTI-
37 CATED DOGS)

Once again, wolves are dangerous. I promise you, however, my Fennec Fox was no more dangerous than a ferret and not any bigger. In fact, he was friendlier than many ferrets I've met!

41 (V) FAMILY PROCYONIDAE (RACCOONS, COATIS)
43 (VII) FAMILY VIVERRIDAE (CIVETS, GENETS, MONGOOSES, BINTURONGS)

Ringtails (which are procyonids) make fine pets, as do certain species of genets. They only get to be several pounds.

44 (3) ORDER EDENTATIA (ANTEATERS, ARMIDILLOS, SLOTHS)

Armadillos are boring, yes. Dangerous? No.

45 (4) ORDER MARSUPIALIA (OPPOSSUMS, KANGAROOS, WALLABIES)

Dama wallabies only get to be several pounds. And to the person who mentioned Kangaroos in the back yard, just because the private sector is keeping one doesn't nessacerily its given a standard sized back yard. Sugar Gliders do need responsible owners, but they're nothing a responsible person can't keep! So many small marsupials are kept... mouse opossums, short tailed opossums, sugar gliders, none of which are dangerous.


50 (8) ORDER RODENTIA (SQUIRRELS, PRAIRIE DOGS, BEAVERS, PORCUPINES,
51 GAMBIEN RATS, BUT NOT GUINEA PIGS, RATS, MICE, GERBILS OR HAMSTERS)

A FLYING squirrel couldn't hurt you if it wanted to. What constitutes legal mice? Just fancy mice (mus mus)? What about zebra mice, spiny mice, pygmy mice... not exactly very threatening.

1 (III) FAMILY BOIDAE (ALL SPECIES WHOSE ADULT LENGTH CAN EXCEED EIGHT
2 FEET IN LENGTH)

Ridiculous! There are tons of boids (pythons and boas) that get between only 2-6 feet, and their girth is so minimal they couldn't be a threat to anything.
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