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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok so we have a little issue with Spezza

He can't sleep with us at night cuz he jumps off the bed as soon as were asleep and pees even when hes been out. Although durning the day when were up he askes for the door,even when we take afternoon naps he wakes us up without problem just at night he pees.

He also has sepration anixety where he pees all over the house, again even thou hes been out right before we left, We have been crate training him slowly example in the cage 10 mins then back out just to get him use to the idea of being in it .

He has toys and treats and a brand new bed in it. Yet no matter how long he is in it he pees >_< he also barks none stop when hes in it.

I know crate training takes time but is there anything i can do to help with the sepration anixety ? Im kind of tired of having to sleep with my arm off the bed touching the cage so he will sleep it hurts after awhile :lol:

when were gone we leave the tv or radio on for him, hes in a quite room other then the tv hes in our room in his cage, but he still spazzes out big time.

We bought a muzzle as recommended by a vet but Im terrified to use it as I dont want him to hate me, Kinda like i was terrified of using the crate at first.


I guess the biggest thing is his barking which is bugging the neighbours and the peeing. Im kinda sick of cleaning his crate everytime we go out..... I thought he wouldnt pee because they dont like laying in there own pee oh how i was wrong >_<

is there anything i can do to make him more calmer or something any natural remidise ?
his sepration anixety is sooo bad that we cant even go to the washroom and leave him in the example livingroom without him peeing or barking
 

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How big is the crate? And what was the muzzle for? A proper muzzle shouldn't prevent barking so I have no idea what it was recommended for. It's used to prevent biting and that's it.

While most dogs can be crate-trained with patience, I have run into two that it just didn't work for. Dogs like that have often lived in very bad situations involving cages...puppy mills, abandoned in a cage, etc. They've been traumatized and forced to urinate in their cage, making crate-training difficult. I'm not saying your dog is like that but immediately peeing in the crate is a bad sign. You're going to have to take things even slower.

If the issue isn't with crate size (remember, get one JUST big enough for the dog to stand up and turn around), take smaller baby steps with the training. Do you clicker train? If so, click and treat for just looking at/stepping near the crate. Eventually progress to clicking when Spezza sniffs the crate/goes closer. If he goes in on his own, click and have a party...lots of treats and praise. Whenever he goes in/is put in, make sure he gets a special treat he only gets when crated...a bully stick, a peanut butter Kong, a lamb ear (I use these a lot with smaller dogs), etc.

Every time he urinates in his crate, the behavior becomes more ingrained. So stop crating him for now until you build a more positive association. If you absolutely need to confine him (like if leaving the house), maybe use a puppy pen with puppy pads down in an area easy to clean. Just don't let him urinate in the crate.

Also keep in mind that he's a senior. Senior dogs do often have trouble adjusting at first (understandably!) so he might even calm down as he gets used to things and realizes you always come back :). Gracie had terrible separation anxiety when I adopted her. I almost had a mental breakdown, I swear! She barked literally non-stop every time she couldn't see someone (like if someone went to the bathroom). She would seriously bark for hours and hours, simply lying down and continuing to bark when tired :lol:. The worst part was that she'd do this if ANYONE left...it didn't matter if someone else was in the room. And she's deaf so you couldn't correct her verbally. In addition to the barking, she had several accidents in the first two weeks...usually in a middle of the night panic... Crates and pens made her more upset (the pen worked better than the crate, though) and I had no idea what to do.

Turns out I needed patience. After a week, the barking slowed down. After a few more weeks, her separation anxiety had improved and the accidents stopped. A few months later and her separation anxiety was pretty much gone...she still likes to follow people around and doesn't like being left alone. But she can also deal with it and doesn't bark obsessively :).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i dunno on the package the muzzle says to control barking biting and chewing ? is there anything i can put in the cage to help him calm down at night instead of having my hand on the bar cuz my shouldres starting to hurt lol. Spezza doesn't go anywhere near the crate unless we put him in it so i don't think clicker training would help at all.Im willing to work with him ^_^ i just need ideas as to how not to go completely insane hehe
 

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A couple suggestions to ease your misery :)
First of all, I wouldn't muzzle him. He can still make weird sounds with it on. It's not a corrective technique as it does not teach him anything. As Sasami said training would be better. Every time he barks correct him with a sound or word then praise him when he stops. It sounds easier than it works but overtime it should work.
Yes, senior dogs take time to adjust. It took my little Coco months to settle into our last house where we rented a room. If you remember I was on here looking up all kinds of holistic calmers. His seperation anxiety was too far advanced however.
Go to the local natural section of Loblaws or another natural store and look for Rescue Remedy. It's made up of all kinds of herbs and flowers and good things which calm them without harming them or messing up their neural paths. I got a bottle for about 12.99 and even giving triple doses to Coco and more than that for myself after his passing to control my own depression and anxiety I still have 2/3's of the bottle. I reccommend trying it :)

To help him sleep and stay asleep I gave Coco melatonin and valerian root (please be careful with the latter bc of the terrific butt smell it emits!). Be careful with the dosage amounts though. The bottle I bought were "Jameison" brand and contained only the drug it's supposed to. Also, one pill might be too much for a small dog. I would look into dosage for Spezza's weight. To help him sleep in his crate at night maybe give him your shirt to sleep on. It will smell like you and if you take it right off and give it to him it should still be warm. What some people do for new puppies is give them a ticking clock wrapped up in warm blanket. You could perhaps wrap a small cheap dollar store ticker in your shirt before bed?

His peeing. I'm an expert at controlling pee now :D
Go to any pet store and get this >http://www.postescanada.ca/magasine...on-Washable-MALE-1677wssmalewrapsml?locale=en
I tried out a couple wraps on Coco and the velcro really holds on this brand! They're relatively cheap as well. It also doesn't hold odors after washing like Coco's black one o.o I love this brand wrap. DONT be suckered into the pads that the pet store sells though. Trust me. If Spezza is emptying his bladdar like Coco was go to the grocery store or drugstore and pick up Depend's (or store brand) pads for MEN >http://conticare.com.au/magento/ind...pads-depend-guards-for-men-190661-crt-84.html These things hold so much liquid it's almost magical. AND they stay dry!!! So after a couple hours of being alone in a peed -in diaper there is no chance of rash or discomfort because of the technology in keeping them dry !!! :D Again, I was more than happy to send these to the Beagle Rescue here bc I KNOW they will help house train some of the fosters.

Hmm. What else? I wonder if Spezza's favorite treat would encourage him to go in the kennel? I know Coco must have had claustrophobia or something but even hearing the sound of the gate opening would set him on edge. We could NOT train him to go in. I think if you find a way to make him go in on his own and not locking him in would ease his tension about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
iv been trying to get him to go in on his own by leaving a trail of his favorite bacon treats he gets to right before the cage
and then runs for his life, im gonna try the remedy thingy you gave me thanks :)we have pee pads would those work inside his crate ? for now
 

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Rescue Remedy isn't going to make him suddenly like his crate but yes, it may calm him down and make him easier to work with.

No, you don't want to put pee pads in the crate. It's very important that he has no more accidents in it if you want to train him. If you use pee pads, confine him to a pen or small room (like the bathroom, maybe?). I don't like pee pads but putting him in a pen with a bunch is better than him soiling your carpet.

As for him not going near the crate, he must walk by it occasionally ;). Or at least look at it! Does he tend to follow you? Could you walk by it to encourage him to walk nearby? He doesn't have to go inside, you just want him to get close or acknowledge the crate in some way so you can build a positive association. I'm not going to lie, it will be a long, tedious process. But it's the easiest way to crate train in this situation without the whole thing backfiring. Combined with time (since he's new), Rescue Remedy, and some favorite treats I think you can do it.

No, but it won't help your problem. It's not any better than using a regular pet cleaner (which should be used to clean up any accidents he has...I use Nature's Miracle) and is for dogs having accidents because of house-training or marking problems. Spezza's issue is separation anxiety so it's a different issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Rescue Remedy isn't going to make him suddenly like his crate but yes, it may calm him down and make him easier to work with.

No, you don't want to put pee pads in the crate. It's very important that he has no more accidents in it if you want to train him. If you use pee pads, confine him to a pen or small room (like the bathroom, maybe?). I don't like pee pads but putting him in a pen with a bunch is better than him soiling your carpet.

As for him not going near the crate, he must walk by it occasionally ;). Or at least look at it! Does he tend to follow you? Could you walk by it to encourage him to walk nearby? He doesn't have to go inside, you just want him to get close or acknowledge the crate in some way so you can build a positive association. I'm not going to lie, it will be a long, tedious process. But it's the easiest way to crate train in this situation without the whole thing backfiring. Combined with time (since he's new), Rescue Remedy, and some favorite treats I think you can do it.



No, but it won't help your problem. It's not any better than using a regular pet cleaner (which should be used to clean up any accidents he has...I use Nature's Miracle) and is for dogs having accidents because of house-training or marking problems. Spezza's issue is separation anxiety so it's a different issue.
I think putting a pee pad is better then him peeing in his crate wouldnt it be ?I mean hes going to pee weather its there or not so I don't get why it would be such a bad thing if its obsorbing the urine while hes in it ? I havent put any yet but i mean he pees so much and is soaked after i leave and when I come home he has to go in a bath cuz hes soaked in urine its gross, wouldnt the pee pads keep him a little dryer ? all my floors are hardwood so I cant let him wander or put him in a small room/pen. we live in a 2 bedroom apartment our bathroom the only room thats not hard wood and it echos to much to have him in it unfortunatley.
 

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I think putting a pee pad is better then him peeing in his crate wouldnt it be ?I mean hes going to pee weather its there or not so I don't get why it would be such a bad thing if its obsorbing the urine while hes in it ? I havent put any yet but i mean he pees so much and is soaked after i leave and when I come home he has to go in a bath cuz hes soaked in urine its gross, wouldnt the pee pads keep him a little dryer ? all my floors are hardwood so I cant let him wander or put him in a small room/pen. we live in a 2 bedroom apartment our bathroom the only room thats not hard wood and it echos to much to have him in it unfortunatley.
It's not because it teaches him that peeing in his crate is OK and because it'll become a habit. For the crate-training to work he can't be locked in his crate right now or the problem may get worse.

Could you get a pen that has a mat for the bottom? That way your floors are protected. Or you could line the bottom of the pen entirely with pee pads provided he's not destructive.

If you want to speed things along with the crate-training I would get a clicker and read up on clicker training. Throughout the day, click and reward every time he goes near the crate, looks at it, etc. Going inside the crate should be hitting the jackpot for him, with favorite treats and toys. If you haven't tried them, get a bully stick. Most dogs go nuts for them and they take a while for light chewers to get through...meaning he'll be quiet ;).
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It's not because it teaches him that peeing in his crate is OK and because it'll become a habit. For the crate-training to work he can't be locked in his crate right now or the problem may get worse.

Could you get a pen that has a mat for the bottom? That way your floors are protected. Or you could line the bottom of the pen entirely with pee pads provided he's not destructive.

If you want to speed things along with the crate-training I would get a clicker and read up on clicker training. Throughout the day, click and reward every time he goes near the crate, looks at it, etc. Going inside the crate should be hitting the jackpot for him, with favorite treats and toys. If you haven't tried them, get a bully stick. Most dogs go nuts for them and they take a while for light chewers to get through...meaning he'll be quiet ;).
see thats where it makes no sense for me.... Its not ok to put it in the crate yet its ok for him to be in a pen with the pee pads :confused: i honestly dont believe in clicker training i find it confuses a dog more then anything and I honestly don't think he would benefit from the clicker training but thats just me. I cant put a pen anywhere in this house theres just no room so a pen is definetly out of the question.
 

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A pen is an open top confined area designated for play or rest. A crate is a den-like structure in which crate-trained dogs can go to be by themselves they can go in and out as they please (unless at bedtime or when they're alone). Crates are meant to make them feel secure and if they pee in it (or are encouraged to pee in it via pee pads) then the whole process of the crate is null.
Since you don't have the room to enclose him in.. I really seriously suggest a male wrap. See above for my links. I swear on all things honorable that they help contain the problem. They do not train! By any means. But they allow for that relief of coming home to no pee. And the pads I mentioned above hold a heck of a lot of liquid and stays dry. Since him peeing in the house will take time to train (and it might not even depending on the circumstances) I really think it's your only option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A pen is an open top confined area designated for play or rest. A crate is a den-like structure in which crate-trained dogs can go to be by themselves they can go in and out as they please (unless at bedtime or when they're alone). Crates are meant to make them feel secure and if they pee in it (or are encouraged to pee in it via pee pads) then the whole process of the crate is null.
Since you don't have the room to enclose him in.. I really seriously suggest a male wrap. See above for my links. I swear on all things honorable that they help contain the problem. They do not train! By any means. But they allow for that relief of coming home to no pee. And the pads I mentioned above hold a heck of a lot of liquid and stays dry. Since him peeing in the house will take time to train (and it might not even depending on the circumstances) I really think it's your only option.
thanks for the explination i still dont feel the need for a pen thou and dont have the space as hes always with us the crate was bought mainly for when hes alone and when its bed time nothing else. As I said before Im definetly going to try what you had recommended :)
 

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To help him feel more comfortable with the crate, do you leave the door open at all times? Maybe flick a slice of cheese in there and let him go in without you standing near it at all. When he associates the crate with treats and not being locked in it might be easier for him to adjust to being locked in for short periods while you are close by. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
To help him feel more comfortable with the crate, do you leave the door open at all times? Maybe flick a slice of cheese in there and let him go in without you standing near it at all. When he associates the crate with treats and not being locked in it might be easier for him to adjust to being locked in for short periods while you are close by. :)
The only time he's in it is when it's bed time n when were out and that's when it's closed other then that it's wide open he won't eat any human food other then bones and we tried to put a steak bone in it and nothing at all happened. However on a good note he has now stopped peeing in the crate so far as of last night we bought him a new bed that fits perfectly in the cage and he hasn't used the crate as a washroom since he also barks less in the cage he whimpers for a few mins at bed time then went to sleep the clock trick worked wonders
 
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