Paw Talk - Pet Forums banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I currently have 3 Russian Campbells hamsters who are diabetes prone I am currently picking out SO much of their food and what they can have half they dont eat I am wasting so much money I just want to make a custom diet ... Anyone make their own or have any ideas?

After doing some research I am trying to figure out how to get daily percentages out of how many grams of protein and fat are in each item.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,468 Posts
Honestly; in my opinion that's too much work. Critters know how much of what they need to consume to live long and healthy, I'd personally just provide a wide array of what they're naturally designed to eat.
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
I haven't had a hamster with Diabetes before (I've mostly had Syrians) but I'd probably do a diet consisting of seeds/grains with a low glycemic index such as barley and rye plus whole gut-loaded insects and worms (mealworms, earthworms, crickets, etc.). I'd also feed fresh plants in small amounts...grasses, clovers, sprouts, etc. Nothing sugary, rich, or watery.
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I always give fresh veggies proper protein etc ... Its the main diet mix I am having a problem with ... so far I have these seeds


Seed protein in 1 cup fat in 1 cup
White millet 22g 8g
Sunflower seeds 3g 128g
flax seeds 31g 71g
rolled oats 11g 5g
lentils 50g 2g
pumpkin seeds 40g 60g
sesame seeds 26g 72g
Wheat germ 27g 11g
peanuts 38g 72g
Safflower
Barley 23g 4g
Canary grass seed
oat groats 8g 4g


As for critters knowing whats best for them cats eat toxic plants all the time dogs eat chocolate one of my hamsters ate metal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,468 Posts
..My statement was generalized. If given a wide array of their natural foods, animals instinctively know how many calories of different things they need to consume which is why you don't offer a few foods or a majority of one thing and little of another.
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
did you see the above list? and diabetic hams will consume too much sugar and fat even given variety
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
I always give fresh veggies proper protein etc ... Its the main diet mix I am having a problem with ... so far I have these seeds


Seed protein in 1 cup fat in 1 cup
White millet 22g 8g
Sunflower seeds 3g 128g
flax seeds 31g 71g
rolled oats 11g 5g
lentils 50g 2g
pumpkin seeds 40g 60g
sesame seeds 26g 72g
Wheat germ 27g 11g
peanuts 38g 72g
Safflower
Barley 23g 4g
Canary grass seed
oat groats 8g 4g


As for critters knowing whats best for them cats eat toxic plants all the time dogs eat chocolate one of my hamsters ate metal
What I said in my post still applies...low glycemic index seeds along with the stuff you're apparently already feeding (veggies and insects). If you're feeding whole insects, a few types of seed, and occasional plants then that's enough variety. No need to complicate things, hamsters don't eat dozens of seed types in the wild :).

I don't know all of those seeds off the top of my head so you'll need to look up nutritional data.

If I had to come up with a possible diet off the top of my head right this second I'd do:

60% consisting of mix containing lentils, flax seeds, barley, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, small amount of sunflower seeds, small amount of split peas, small amount of whole oats, occasional nuts (peanuts and almonds)

20% consisting of whole insects (mealworms, crickets, earthworms, etc.) and eggs (chicken and/or quail)

10% grasses/plants (red clovers, garlic mustard, different types of grass, sprouts, dandelion greens, wood sorrel, etc.)

10% vegetables and flowers (leafy lettuces, nasturtiums, marigolds, rose petals/hips, etc.)

That's what I would do, anyway. There isn't a ton of data out there on the species' native diet (such as how much animal matter they consume) so it's partially a guess.
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Its just the seed mix I am having trouble with and its a little more complicated because the protein and fat needs also I did look up the nutrition facts those are whats next to them fat and protein the main things you need to look at with hams all are fairly low in natural sugars.
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
Its just the seed mix I am having trouble with and its a little more complicated because the protein and fat needs also I did look up the nutrition facts those are whats next to them fat and protein the main things you need to look at with hams all are fairly low in natural sugars.
It's really not as complicated as you think it is ;). Is there a reason you require very specific fat/protein needs? If you do, maybe post the values you want to achieve with your mix so we can help.

I'm aware that you need to limit fat for captive hamsters (the mix I posted limits some of the higher fat ingredients, if you noticed) but I don't believe the needs are that specific. Again, we don't actually know what they eat in the wild (unless you found a paper that I don't know about...I haven't looked into this in years since I no longer keep hamsters) and it would vary by season, anyway.
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well they have high protein needs though I am not sure ... I think 23% is decent for the mix this was often brought up on my old hamster forum and no more than 5% fat.

and I am just a paranoid owner and want them to have the best. Some of the seeds are hard to find but I will.
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
To figure out percentages you're going to need to know how much you'll be mixing up at a time :).
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would be mixing about 2 lbs at a time thats enough for my hammies for over 2 months. With my cat food that equates to about 8 cups ... Hmm ... I wonder if that could be the key to figuring it out ...

8-12 cups at a time ... So that could help me figure out how much of each I would need to be using.
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
If you're including cat food in the mix you're going to need to look up how much protein and fat your cat food contains. I would also decide about how much of your mix will be cat food (if that's your plan, anyway) so you can figure out the seed ratios based on that :).

But yes, you need to know how much you're making at a time to calculate percentages. I can help you but right now you have so many ingredients that we need to narrow things down a bit :lol:.
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
No no no lol it was just my cat has small pelleted food so I was comparing how many cups per pound.

I want to keep at the very least this as the base and I can give others as treats ...

White Millet
Barley
Lentils
rolled oats
flax seeds
And I would like to have buck wheat or something similar in it

Thats the very least the more seeds the better they need variety.

Treats would be
pumpkin seeds
Sunflower seeds
raw peanuts
sesame seeds


I would be making about 10 cups at a time.

I REALLY appreciate it ... Will you give me a recipe I can try when you are done?

And sugar fiber carbs and fat are what I need to look out for.
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
I'm heading to bed but I'll crunch the numbers tomorrow :). Do you know the protein and fat content for the buckwheat?
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks so much :D

And here ... For 1 cup of buckwheat

in one cup

fat 6 grams protein 23 grams and it can be very low in fat They will get daily treats such as the above seeds
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
I did some calculations but had to approximate because I just realized that you gave the protein/fat contents per cup but the amount of grams per cup will vary for every ingredient.

If you can find out how many grams are in one cup for each seed/ingredient (this data should be around) OR how many grams protein/fat there are per 100 grams (or something similar) I can do exact calculations.

As of right now, I have a spreadsheet made for you where you can put in how much of an ingredient you want to use and it'll calculate the percent fat and protein plus tell you how many cups it'll be total. But since I don't know how many grams are in each cup for the different seeds, I estimated by assuming there are on average 120g per cup. Obviously that means certain ingredients are off right now since they may be a lot lighter or heavier (like the peanuts).
 

·
Zoo Keeper
Joined
·
1,367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Heres what i found ... Tell me if I missed anything

Buckwheat 170 grams

1 cup barley 170 grams
lentils 150-200 depending on type
peanuts 130
sesame seeds 125
Flax seed 125 grams
millet 180 grams
sunflower seeds 144g
rolled oats 80 grams
Pumpkin seeds 138

They are ALL grams per cup
 

·
Resident Aquarium Nerd
Joined
·
9,930 Posts
Ok, so I made you a spreadsheet on Microsoft Excel (should also open on similar programs and I can put it on Google Docs if needed). I included directions but basically all you need to do is put in values under "Amount used (cups)". So if you want to use half a cup, put in 0.5, etc. Right now there are some values I used as a test that result in a 12 cup mix with a fat content of 3.9% (rounded) and a protein content of 22.9% (rounded). The current mix doesn't include all of the ingredients so you can mess with it until you get one you're happy with :). Plus you'll be able to use the spreadsheet to make new mixes if you want to rotate seeds but keep the right protein and fat levels.

Don't change anything else on the spreadsheet or it may interfere with the calculations. Just change the amount used for cups and it'll do everything else.

Edit: So I tried to attach the spreadsheet to this post but it failed because they don't allow the file type. If you PM me your e-mail address I'll send it to you :).

Anyone else reading this thread: PM me if you want the spreadsheet, too.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top