Ok, so Ive always listened to my one friend about pets. She gave me my mice, after all.
The thing is, she had a very bad experience with rats and its making me think twice about my own desison.
Ok, so she had 2 males, and they fought alot. She said they kept her up at night cause of the fighting...of course they werent neutered. They were fine acting when she 1st got them and then turned nasty. They bit and drew quite a bit of blood.The thing is, they were from a petstore, they were unneautered, and the cage was a bit small.
Im planning on 2 neutered boys soon, that have been living together, love each other, and become one becomes slightly distressed when the other is taken from the cage. (according to their foster mommy, from mainely rat rescue, the rats names are Frankie and Albert) I have decided to get the Martain 695 cage, which is big enough for 6. I will probably have 4 rats in a few months, cause I will be adding two females when I come across some that I like. So do I have to worry? I just really value my friend's opinon and Id like some other experienced people....
My rats (females) lived together fine they got in occasional tiffs but didn't draw blood ever, and were very fun to have. I had 5 in a homemade cage. I started with 2, added 2 later, and another one later.
Generally rats are easier to introduce to each other than many other animals, but sometimes you'll come across a rat that just won't get along with anyone else. If that happens, then you'll just need to keep them in separate cages. Neutered males should be a bit easier to intro, though--and the nice thing is that you could even keep them with females if they don't get along with each other. I've never had females or neutered males, though, but others here have. Hopefully they will have some good advice for you!
You have hit the nail on the head with the problem and solution: They were in a small cage which increases irritation and aggressive tendencies anyway, and they were intact boys likely suffering from hormonal aggression-since they got along at first and only later started fighting.
Her rats should have been separated after the first couple of times blood was drawn. Once might be a fluke, more than once is a pattern.
My gut feeling, without having the extensive first hand knowledge to back me up, is that your kids will likely be fine. You've already addressed three different aggression aspects:
1) Cage Size
2) Neutering
3) Socialization and an established pair bond via the rescue.
My one concern is I have always read about single neutered males being kept with girls. I've never specifically seen people describe more than one male with females. I am curious if that makes a difference. Would they fight simply because they have females to fight over? I just don't know enough to have that answer, but someone else may.
Thankyou very much to those who have replyed. Im glad that I have more feedback now that all males dont fight so much, and one of those rats was just...one of "those rats" who always start a fight.
Thats an interesting point, that the boys may fight just because they are with girls. Ill keep looking into it online, Ive gotta get me one of those rat books...
I have had several neutered boys in with intact girls. First group was a bonded pair of brothers. They stayed together all their lives and even got introduced to another neutered boy and 3 younger girls.
The others were a neutered boy, introduced to an older neutered boy into an established colony. The girls were ruder to the new boy than the original boy
Your friend just didn't know enough about rats to realize she had hormonal aggression on her hands (probably just 1 of them, 1 attacks, 1 defends = a lot of noise)...a neuter would've stopped all that and a bigger cage as well. Did they get much out time? This is very important. I have 3 young boys here who are starting to act quite hormonal but the 3 of them are in the bottom of an FN, have several hammocks (so they don't have to share) and get out often.
My most recent boy pairs...are my half-wild brothers, Java and Marsky, who live with 1 intact girl and 1 spayed girl.
Once a boy is neutered they often lose interest in females in that way, so there's no "taking turns" *giggle*
Thanks very much lilspaz68! Its great to be able to ask questions and have someone with experience answer.
I dont think the rats had much out time simply because my friend didnt wanna get bitten. Since they were so stressed out, I think thats why they bit her anyway.
I haven't read all that's been said, so I apoligize if I repeat what others are saying.
So I speak from personal experience. I've had many males in the past a few that fought quite a bit. Rats are nocturnal, so it is perfectly normal for them to fight at night. Being neutured, I really can't see the point in it to be honest, it is fun to have a hairless neutered male though, so you don't see their balls all the time Lol. I've had 3 males with a female once and they fought just to be able to be first Lol I've had 2 males that helped kill off 2 of my babies, father and son. The father was starved but didn't notice it until I could start seeing his bones so I gave the benifice of the doubt and waited a bit. Same with the son only he got attacked so bad that his neck wasn't straight anymore. The forst male that started the attack would eat all the food and attack the youngest so I gave him away. Later on I thought it would be good to get another one, he did the same. So he was traded for a little female, but by that time the son had already past and the father looked anorexic. The father wasn't able to breed anymore so the female went with him but when he past she got depressed and wouldn't eat, poor thing so I gave her to someone that had many rats already this way she wouldn't be lonely, I do miss my rats from time to time of course. But anyways all that to say that you shouldn't hesitate, rats are wonderful pets and do fight from time to time. I hope this info is helpful
I I've had 2 males that helped kill off 2 of my babies, father and son. The father was starved but didn't notice it until I could start seeing his bones so I gave the benifice of the doubt and waited a bit. Same with the son only he got attacked so bad that his neck wasn't straight anymore. The forst male that started the attack would eat all the food and attack the youngest so I gave him away.
Wow that whole explanation is WHY we neuter, so people don't breed these poor animals like you did.
i feel incredibly sorry for all your rats. The crooked neck was head tilt, caused by an inner ear infection, NOT a injured neck (do you know HOW many times i hear that one in rescue situations? )
Ok seriously 1 I took extremely good care of my rats, 2 HUGE cages=Enough space. No more then 4 rats per cage. 2 The crooked neck was NOT a ear infection, it's because he got bit in the neck 'til blood was drawn and then he would keep his head tilt so it healed that way 3 both of those 2 rats that attacked I took in since a friend of mine couldn't keep them and I took them in but I was only supposed to find them homes and after a week I found someone and had to keep them for a little longer and that's when the attack happened and one of them went to a pet shop because of what happened. 4 YES THEY HAD ENOUGH FOOD, Huge bowls of it plus lots of treats, they had no reason to fight and 5 Why neuter an animal that only lasts a few years?
I have no idea why they fought other than dominance. My rats were bred but not intentionally, turned out that either someone left the cages opened while I was away or they found a way to get out, do you seriously think I'm that stupid? Plus one of them was a hairless female, female hairless rats are dangerous to breed why would I put her in harm's way?
Why neuter them? So they're not horrifically slaughtering each other while you sit and watch? Just because something only lives a few years doesn't mean that they deserve to be ignored and let to fight and hurt each other. If you dont' think it's worth it then don't have that animal, but for goodness sake don't have such a carnival of horror happening while blithely telling people how you wouldn't neuter them.
Those poor rats. I'm going to go snuggle my cage of 8 boys (who have magically never eaten each other.)
Look I've only had 2 rats that fought the others because my friend rescued them from someone that didn't take care of them oh and guess what those 2 little rats, they WERE neutered by whom ever had them before hand and all my other rats weren't and were ok and I don't see the point and paying money to neuter something that only last a short while, so sue me. FYI Neutering is NOT a necessity, and it is NOT required if you want rats.
When your rats are KILLING your other rats, they are in need of neutering. It is necessary at that point. Again, a rat killing another rat is a serious, serious issue that is just so horrifying to me that I can barely comprehend it happening. It's like someone coming on here and announcing that one of their dogs killed one of their other dogs like it happens all the time and to watch out for it.
It doesn't happen all the time. It is extremely uncommon. It should NOT be allowed to happen. And all under the guise of them not living a long time. Poor sweet rats.
When your rats are KILLING your other rats, they are in need of neutering. It is necessary at that point. Again, a rat killing another rat is a serious, serious issue that is just so horrifying to me that I can barely comprehend it happening. It's like someone coming on here and announcing that one of their dogs killed one of their other dogs like it happens all the time and to watch out for it.
It doesn't happen all the time. It is extremely uncommon. It should NOT be allowed to happen. And all under the guise of them not living a long time. Poor sweet rats.
the two rats that she had that where fighting were neutured id should no as i had rescued them from a women who abused them didnt take care of them and let her snake tourment them the only good thing that came out of that situation was that the old owner neutured them and i was able to rescue them, even thou im badly allergic to them id never let an animal be in harms way I know dimondbaron very well as our parents grew up togethier she takes wonderful care of her animals rats and other animals as well she loves them equally. sometimes rats like other animals have illnesses that you dont notice right away the main thing is is when she did notice that they were sick that she took care of the problem,with vet care ect, She would never allow them to fight and just stand there and watch. She did take care of the situation when she realized that they where fighting. She did not breed to be a back yard breeder, it was mistake, and even though it was a bad mistake, and i know alot of people are against breeders regardless it was a live and learn experience even if it shouldnt of happened it did . All the babies that survived were adopted to wonderful homes.so please do not jump to conclusions that she would just let them die out of bordom. she does feed her pets and take very well care of them other wise i would of never asked her to join paw talk in the first place. I know that we all live in diffrent situations and that we all have our beliefs and disbeliefs in things (in her case she didnt believe in neuturing) but that doesnt make someone a bad own. we are all here to learn and share our experiences weather it be good experiences or bad.
And you obviously are to stupid to read and comprehend what I wrote, I said the rats that were KILLING were the ones NEUTERED and I did NOT just WATCH it all happened I SEPARATED them and got them NEW HOMES.
Anyways I did NOT come on here to start BASHING everyone else on this forum like many of you HAVE.
i don't know, i'm a fairly new rat owner and my boys are intact and i watch them like a hawk. when i think someone is not getting enough food i make sure that they are eating properly. (D'artagnan is smaller than Skaven) i make sure to separate them and put food directly in D'arts little paws.
my boys are intact and scuffle over food at times, but never fight. No squeaks, no bits just pushing each other around until i say "stop that!" Skaven just eats faster and steals D's "hidden"food. I can't imagine not noticing if one were starving.
Also you may be good with other animals, but all animals are different. Rats are not the same as dogs, or turtles, or geckos or mantids, or cats, or even ferrets. you just don't seem to be ready to own a rat, and its a shame you had to learn that lesson the hard way.
The way you describe your situation does not sound like a good one, and you sound very blase about the whole experience. no matter how i read this it comes off as bad joo joo.
Even as i'm introducing Queequeg to the twins i'm hyper attentive to their behavior and if i don't like it i separate them.
I'm not questioning how you take care of animals, but the way you just describe your rats being thin, injured, fighting and getting mistakenly pregnant so casually is weird!
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Thank you nibbler for coming to clarify because I was sure DiamondBaron was mistreating her pets!
Diamondbaron, were they your pets or you were just fostering? you still have rats?
Yes they were my pets, no I don't have any more rats. There are some that I was just supposed to foster like the 2 boys but turned out I kept them.
The pregnancies were in the first year that I had some, but I think it may have been my mom's ex that let them in the females' cage since he was always messing with our pets and always saying that it'd be fun to have babies. And he was told regularly that Pinky, my hairless rat, couldn't breed just in case since I've read that it could be dangerous.
As for the attacks, those were recent. I notice them losing a bit of weight but I thought they always ate since I saw them actually eating out of the bowl once in a while, so I'm assuming it was during the night, one morning I gave them a bath and noticed that the son had puncture wounds on his back and that I couldn't touche his neck, that night I stayed up and washed them sure enough they kept attacking each other and the dad tried to help out but both males(which I only had 1 at a time) got bigger, I thought was in the breed so I seperated them and gave them away, the second male, Fai, I traded for a female that had been handled very well at a petshop but her owner couldn't keep her and her sisters so I brought her home, by that time the son had passed, so she could go with the dad since he couldn't breed anymore, he got really skinny but when she showed up he got really excited started eat a lot, he shared his food with her all the time, and everything was great then I noticed him trying to get her so I separated them but he became anorexic-looking I think he wasn't eating so I put her back and left them together but he was eating apparently according to family members but the next morning I found him dead in his cage.
He was the best I got him at 1 month and he was so social that when I'd take him out if he wanted to eat he'd jump off the couch and go straight to the cage, my rats were exceptional especially Pinky, she understood you when you'd tell her something it was so weird like she'd take a cracker from a box i'd tell her no and she'd put it back and came to me licked my cheek then go stand beside the box as if asking
All the rats I'd gotten for them past 4 years were great all social, mind you that I got them when they were very young so I'd socialize them a lot. Most were never in their cages, most of the time was on my shoulders or sitting with me on the couch watching tv or something. I knew it was different then dogs or turtles, which were the only 2 types I had gotten 4 years ago, but I read a whole bunch of stuff, I met nibbler when giving the babies away and she helped me out when ever she could. I never saw a vet with them though since I didn't have money or clue that vets could see rats, which is kinda stupid that's what vets are for hehe. And everything was great other than the occasional punching around to show who's the boss so everything was perfect. I chose to bring back the female I traded with Fai to the pet store since she got all depressed and my mom wouldn't let me have more of them and that was the end of having rats, for now that is. But I've learned a lot and in the past 6 months I didn't have time to pay attention to behavior I was working night shifts so at night I'd be working during the day I'd be sleeping and when I was awake nothing happened they were ok but rats are nocturnal so it wasn't the right time of day.
Next time I get more rats I'll just make sure I'm not too busy to notice these kinds of things.
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