[mulder]

I knew it! my gut feeling was right!

My brother in law had taken rider's mom (the boxer) and littermate (female). the littermate is almost twice the size of rider! he brought them over to visit last night and he said the pups birthdate is october 1, so rider was only 5.5 weeks when we picked her up and is only 6.5 weeks old NOW!:mad2: i had a gut feeling the lady was lying so it was easier to get rid of them. when rider saw her mom (boxer) last night, her face lit up and her body was so excited to see her mom. she immediately went to nurse, and the mom laid down and let her, so i know that lady lied about her kicking her puppies off. rider gorged herself until she looked like an inflated balloon, then barfed because she was way too full. she slept a bit better than usual but cried like the day we got her, and is barely touching her dry pup food. she barfed a little this morning. also took a huge poo twice the size of the rest she's done. now her tummy is back down to where it was and she seems restless. she still gets her bouts of wicked pup energy and plays with oscar.

we are going tonight to petsmart get powder formula that i can reconstitute and she can lap out of a saucer or bowl. all she showed us last night is that she's starving, and i won't let it continue. i could cry i feel so bad for her. we're seeing the vet soon either friday or next week, but i don't need a vet to tell me this pup wasn't weaned, she makes it obvious.

has anyone ever done this that could recommend a product they've used and had success? i think a milk replacement is a wiser idea than a weaning formula, no? she still munches her kibbles but it's obviously not enough.

also does anyone have recommended reading on any behavioral differences with puppies that have left too early? or is it a topic i can trust google for. anyone can put anything on the internet these days, so i'd rather know i'm reading something accurate.

thanks so much guys.

 

[Nibbler]

Milk replacement is definetly a good idea for the little girl. If you find shes having a hard time sleeping you could try what iv done with pups before, put an old clock that ticks under her pillow or on the side of the cage really close they think for whatever reason its there mommys heart beat.

 

[mulder]

my only concern with milk replacement is if her body still handles lactose. she'd clearly gorged herself, but she barfed curdled milk (stunk like it too) even in the barf this morning. the weaning formula can be less diluted over time until i'm giving it to her as an almost oatmeal consistency. she can lap it out of a bowl. she does take kibbles but she nibbles at it, there' no "hungry puppy".

 

[Nibbler]

my only concern with milk replacement is if her body still handles lactose. she'd clearly gorged herself, but she barfed curdled milk (stunk like it too) even in the barf this morning. the weaning formula can be less diluted over time until i'm giving it to her as an almost oatmeal consistency. she can lap it out of a bowl. she does take kibbles but she nibbles at it, there' no "hungry puppy".

what if you tried maybe watering down her kibbles ? they might be to hard for her and thats why she doesn't eat a lot at once, a puppy even at 8 weeks will try and latch onto its mother for milk as long as its with mommy. Im not to sure about the forumla . Mother dogs dont usually feed there pups after a certain age, Often pups stop having the milk around 6 weeks.

 

[mulder]

I had tried watering down her kibbles, even mashing them like potatoes, she'd eat as much as she does when it's dry and cry about it too. i think she was close to being weaned but was cut short? the weaning formula i'm hoping will help, even if i mix it in with her "mashed potatoes" (lol) to give her more nutrition. I can accept her structure is small, it's her lacking pudginess that bugs me. she is not bony nor skinny, just lacks the puppy girth i'd expect. I will also make sure my brother in law knows not to bring the mom around any time soon. originally we thought she didn't like the "mashed potatoes" because the water took the flavour away. the solid kibble she gobbles down only once a day, we thought it soothed her gums (still has a few teeth coming in).

 

[Nibbler]

I had tried watering down her kibbles, even mashing them like potatoes, she'd eat as much as she does when it's dry and cry about it too. i think she was close to being weaned but was cut short? the weaning formula i'm hoping will help, even if i mix it in with her "mashed potatoes" (lol) to give her more nutrition. I can accept her structure is small, it's her lacking pudginess that bugs me. she is not bony nor skinny, just lacks the puppy girth i'd expect. I will also make sure my brother in law knows not to bring the mom around any time soon. originally we thought she didn't like the "mashed potatoes" because the water took the flavour away. the solid kibble she gobbles down only once a day, we thought it soothed her gums (still has a few teeth coming in).

could it be just a thought that the kibble is to hard on her tummy ? adding the forumla to her food might be a good idea have you tried her on just normal wet food ? i mean it might give her the runs but maybe shed eat more?

 

[mulder]

we haven't tried wet food, we just picked up what she'd already been eating (brand) but puppy food instead of ADULT FOOD (aaaah!). i'm fuelling my discontent of this woman into caring and helping this pup, or i'd go bonkers. because we already have the dry food, i'd like to go with the weaning formula to give extra nutrition. that way we're not switching her food and then switching her food and then switching her food. i was pretty sure her tummy would be close to done with lactose regarding the milk replacement, but i wanted to make sure

 

[Kendalle]

I would mix a little milk replacer with dry food, and offer a small amount of wet a few times a day. She really should be eating quite often.

 

[Sasami]

Personally, I'd take the pup to the vet and ask them. At this point you can't be certain of anything...her age might be different then you think, she probably didn't get puppy vaccines, etc. It sounds like the breeder was pretty irresponsible so who knows what potential health problems the puppy could have.

As for food, try a high-quality canned food. They're easier for puppies to eat and more palatable. I have no recommendation on the milk replacer because it really depends on how far along she is developmentally and I'd speak to a vet asap.

I don't have any recommendations for specific books or articles, sorry . I'll let you know if I find a good one!

 

[mulder]

Thanks everyone. We didn't get her from a breeder, she's from a family that had 3 unfixed dogs and thus an oops litter. the family split up and all the dogs had to go or they were going to the humane society. we were told we had to pick her up the day we did, because the family was going their separate ways (moving homes) only days later. they never took the pups to a vet. we will be taking her to the vet that's already cared for oscar, for familiarity sake (plus oscar is in great condition). the country vet is also cheaper than the inner city vet, while being just as good.

we did go out tonight and get a powder weaning formula. we won't see the vet until monday or tuesday and i just can't wait, not when she acts obviously unhappy with her food option. she lacks the puppy fat on her body. if she was an adult dog i'd say she's healthy, but she's a puppy, they should have pudge. i'd mixed it the consistency of canned stew broth (not watery but not pasty). she loved it! she even kept licking the outside of the bowl as though the loved the bowl for giving it to her. within 5 minutes she was fast asleep, with a proper puppy belly. she didn't gorge herself, there is plenty left that i've put in the fridge. she fell asleep on the floor in front of the bowl 5 minutes after eating (she drank water and ate a few soggy kibbles too). then (as she's taught herself to do) she crawled into the bed in her kennel and is now fast asleep. her pee and poo are normal. her nutrition is wrong. you'd have to have met this family to understand that they think their dogs were machines and people at the same time, but never realized they were animals. talked and disciplined them like people, instilled changes as though easily programming a machine. the dogs need patience, love, and proper food. my brother in law took the mother boxer as i'd mentioned, and her ribs were showing. i could lay my fingers in between like a form! she is already looking better and her ribs are not visible. he had said the family came to visit to see how the dogs were, and none of the dogs even cared! the dogs sniffed them and then curled up in their beds and slept. how bad is that!?

i have found some reading, though i'm not sure on accuracy. i read generally, being skeptical of specific details until we see the vet. the gist of what i'd read is that she may have a problem "playing" with other dogs when she's older because of not properly learning the inhibited bite. she may also have an issue with any obedience/training from not having the mother teach her to accept discipline (not punishment). and the third point I got was teaching rejection, not always getting exactly what they want, the second they want it. does that sound close?

 

[Kendalle]

yes, but it helps she will grow up with another dog, he will teach her. You will notice he treats her different around 4 months old, adult dogs will start not thinking puppies are cute at 4 months old, and treat them stricter.

 

[mulder]

thanks kendalle, that's great to hear. we were hoping that she would take a liking to following and playing with oscar, and she certainly has. right now she just loves to play with him or follow him from room to room. he accepted her very quickly which was so wonderful to see (took him less than 24hrs). when he play wrestles with her, he is so gentle! she really gets into the playing, sometimes snarling and yipping at him, lots of bouncing around. he'll always stop and look at us with a look seeking approval. we keep telling him he's a good boy, then his tail wags and he keeps playing. we've seen she can get so into playing she almost becomes a merciless biter (she still thinks she's playing), and we are looking forward to when oscar decides to tell her when he's had enough (he still just takes it and takes it). their play is always supervised, don't worry. oscar is a very good dog and is adjusting to us well and quite quickly, and we couldn't ask for a better role model for rider.

with the weaning formula, I'd given her a few tablespoons, like a "here, try this". she loved it, slept great, was up at her usual times, and i was able to settle her down the usual way. i sit in her pen (I made a pen out of the dining room area) and she lies on my lap and is back asleep in 10 minutes, so I put her in her bed in her crate (leave the door open). she didn't get sick or bring anything back up, no burps or licking her chops from nausea. this morning she has more energy! i just got her settled back into bed, everyone was up as my husband left for work. she squealed for almost an hour wanting to play with oscar, but he's sleeping so I kept her occupied with toys to chew. every time she's awake (day or night) i put her food (soggy kibbles) down to make sure she eats. overnight i gave her one tablespoon of the formula and that made her very content. this morning i gave her another tablespoon, and then she nibbled her soggy kibbles and was content and ready to play. she loves rope toys (i supervise in case of loose threads) and chewed her heart out, and now the squeakerbox is fast asleep.

 

[mulder]

just booked the vet appt for tuesday at 3:40, will let you know how it goes

 

[Kendalle]

when he does say its enough he will snarl and growl and snap near her. Don't punish him, it will be more sound than anything, and should hurt her feelings right away and will back off. Adult dogs will show them but normally it is about 4 months old. Unless she bites him hard enough he yips and will snarl sooner than that.

 

[mulder]

so far he's being very good. she's hurt him a few times (bit his testicles) then he pins her down by her throat but DOES NOT close his mouth, he is impressively gentle. we do see when she stops and slinks away, but then he goes to play with her some more, so there's no hard feelings. we always make sure we're supervising anyways