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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Our chin, Clover, whom we purchased from a breeder in August, gave birth this weekend! We had absolutely no clue she was pregnant and were very surprised to find her and a brand new baby boy Saturday morning.

I knew our cage wasn't appropriate for a newborn kit (he could slip through the bars), plus there's so much I don't know about caring for kits so I called our breeder. She agreed to loan us a cage, and gave us a few other tips. So I'm very secure in that he'll be fine at this point.

The problem I have is that she claims that he belongs to her, since the birth happened less than 111 days since we bought Clover. She says she tells everyone who buys a female from her, that, if they give birth within that time, the kit is hers.

This stinks to high heaven from my point of view, because I know darn well that she told us nothing of the sort. Plus, there's no written contract to back up what she says.

Can I just tell her to go to ****, and keep the kit? We definitely want him (and yes I know we will have to keep mother and son separated before he's of a certain age), or does she have a legitimate claim?
 

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I don't know anything about breeder contracts, so before taking what I say seriously I'd say wait for someone else with more knowledge to catch this thread. However, that sounds like bull to me. Without a written contract I'd tell her tough luck, and I would tell her to go to **** because it sounds like she purposely bred the female or sold that female in particular so she could later claim the kit from an unknowledgeable(not saying you are! Saying that's what she thinks you are) client. If she were a reliable breeder she wouldn't have sold you a pregnant Chin, or if she did, would have TOLD you. If she were a reliable breeder, she should know which Chins are pregnant, which Chins aren't, and which ones have the potential to be pregnant, and should inform each and every prospective buyer of which the Chin they're interested in is. That's LOUSY of her. But wait for someone else to respond. I just wanted to air that out.
 

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Zoo Keeper
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Without a written contract in a court it would not stand up at all everything needs to be in writing you have the papers saying you adopted her. Did you take anyone with you when you adopted her? If noone was around its your word against hers and since there are no papers ...

Did you sign papers when you adopted her? If so look over them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
No, no papers or anything. After a brief consultation with a lawyer acquaintance of ours, who told us she hasn't got a case against us, we've decided we're going to tell her we're keeping the baby ("Gus")!
 

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I'd buy a new cage asap and give hers back if you are planning on keeping it. Its not fair to use hers if she is expecting to get the kit back, along with the cage, its also not a good breeder that didn't know she was expecting.
 

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canis lupus familiaris
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actually it sounds like she sold you a pregnant chin. A real breeder would have noted that it was a pregnant chin and wouldn't have sold it.

And yeah no contract, no go. This is your baby...congrats! Besides, a real breeder would have also told you that chins do best in groups. Most breeders I have contacted wouldn't sell me one unless I had proof of one at home.

but yeah I'd tell her to go [flip] herself =]
 

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Zoo Keeper
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She obviously does not do controlled breedings which is not at all good.
 

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Ill admite, iv had my girl give birth without knowing she was pregnet. But then again.. im not selling them. If shes trying to breed chins then sells a grown female without knowing shes pregnet (or at the very least, wait the 11 and make sure shes not) Then this person shouldnt be breeding them to begin with.

As for the cage in the second picture, that should realy be replaced. Or atleast covered up to make it safe. Wire cages liek that are dangerous. Not only uncomfortable for the chin, but they can realy hurt themselves on them. Its not hard for a chin, baby or not, to get a leg or foot cought in those opening. And if they do, they (and you) have a seriosu problem.
Now im fully aware how hard it is to find a baby suitable cage. EXPECALY on short notice. But you dont want to risk injury or worse to any of your chins.

Also the litter aint the best either. Look likes the blue Carefresh litter. Which i admit i used for a long time to before i new better. But if a chin ingests that it can cause impation which could kill them. And since msot chins chew everything they can get their teeth on, its logical to assume they will.
Litters can be very hard to choise sometimes as well, since so many things can be hazerdouse if they ingest. Corn, paper, clay, all bad for chins. Fleece liners are great if you have the means to wash and dry them as needed. (In an apt, i dont unfortionitly) So iv been useing aspen shavings. (Note that ceder shavings are extremly harmfull to them).

Also note, im not critazing or anything. I wouldnt do that. Just trying to make sure the pets have a long and healthy life. And owners need to be informed. A good knowledge base is always the best begining! (wish i had one before my brother showed up at the door asking me to watch his for a while... like 6yrs ago lol) :D
 

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Zoo Keeper
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Can you get ahold of a critter nation? Or ferret nation? They are AMAZING!!!!!! I strongly suggest them and no worries about escapes. Completely safe and they come with ramp covers.
 

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Thats only half true. Ferret Nation cages are great. No doubt. I have two seperate two story FN cages. (Model 142) But kits can still get out of them very easy. All three of my kits have. I almost lost my first on because he got out before i new he was born. (Of course i didnt no she was pregnet).

I had to cover all the edges of the cage with large slabs of card board untill they were large enough they couldnt fit through. I had them confined to the bottem floor. And took the second floor tray out to make sure they had air circulation.

The other thing to watch out for is a kits size can be deceving. Their was a point looking at mine i thought 'no way they can fit though now' and took some of the board off. Came out that night to find her stuck half way between the bars.

Dont get me wrong tho, those arnt problems strickly of FN cages. Those can accure with ANY cage with 1inch bar spacing. Kits realy should be in 1/2 (half) bar spaceing cage untill they get bigger for their own saftey. But their are things you can do to help them if another cage is not an option for you like it was for me at the time.
 

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Zoo Keeper
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I should have been more specific ... when he grows a FN is escape proof for adults the CN is completely escape proof for everything but mice lol.

Sorry I added the FN in at the end the rest was really for the CN
 

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I dont ahve a CN so i cant comment to that. FN is defenitly adult excape proof tho lol. Unless u have chins like mine that bombard the door when u open it lol.
 

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well the major difference is the way the bars face ( horizontally vs vertically) and spacing.

Can you get one? Even a single for now its not ideal since its a little small but its safe and great quality.
 

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well something with smaller bars would be a major help for a kit. And you dont want TO much room for them anyway. So they cant get to far from mommy. Also kits can often fall of any ledges of shelves and might hurt themselves. So its best to keep them on one floor anyway.

My youngest ones are almsot 9 months now so their fine. But it could be helpfull for anyone with young kits.
 

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Clover's baby is YOURS and that breeder is a ding dong ;)
 

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Amateur Zookeeper
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So cute!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for all the advice and support! Gus gained friggin 36 grams in his first week! We will be getting/building a new cage as soon as we can (money's tight) and I will look into different litter options. I'd been told the carefresh was good to use, but if I've learned anything about chins it's that any advice I get will be debunked sooner or later. My girlfriend HATES pine shavings but I think she'll like a fleece liner!
 
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